Rodgers Norfolk stag Whittler - NEED HELP PLEASE

[Rookie]

Hello, my grandfather recently came across this knife and bought it. All my knife ID & Price guides don't cover the Rodgers England knives. I'd like some help estimating when it was made, and perhaps a ballpark value? I've found somewhat similar knives and tangs online and in AAPK but would like confirmation from those with more knowledge.

closed length is 3.5 inches
3 blade split-back whittler
stag covers, bare-head (no bolsters)
all blades stamped front side and rear side

Main Blade front "RODGERS CUTLERS TO HIS MAJESTY" and rear "ENGLAND"
Small blade #1 front has Star & Cross and rear says "RODGERS CUTLERS TO HIS MAJESTY"
Small blade #2 front has Star & Cross and rear says "NO. 6 NORFOLK STREET SHEFFIELD"

[Gunsil]

With those marks it would be made between 1910 and 1952, hard to narrow it down further. Edward VII was 1901-1910, George V and VI 1910-1952. I have seen Rodgers knives from Edward VII with a crown and ER indicating his reign so I think the "to his majesty was more likely used during the two Georges but no way to tell which one. No idea on value, the early Rodgers (pre 1891) are more highly valued than the later ones. Maybe somebody else will chime in with a value. I usually look up similar knives on ebay and go to "sold items" on the left toolbar to see what they have actually sold for. It is possible that it was Edward, but with the "England" on the blade it can be no older as that mark was required after the tariff act of 1890 and Victoria ruled until 1901 and it would have her royal warrant mark and/or "Cutlers to Her Majesty". Pretty knife!

[richard]

https://www.sheffieldhistory.co.uk/foru ... ment-10803

i have posted this link before. it may be of interest to people .

[RobesonsRme.com]

I opened the thread thinking I was going to see an old NorFolk Whittler.

A bit disappointed, but the OP knife is still very nice.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

This is either a Sleeveboard or Senator whittler. Is the depth from top edge of stag to bottom edge exactly the same at either end ? or is there a slight taper ?
It is a very nice knife, quite collectible but not high value. The condition looks to be 'top notch'. I think this was made between WW I & WW II. The high value Jos Rodgers knife are those made prior to WW I.
Prices for most vintage folding knives are down at present. I have a friend with an extensive collection of some of the best Sheffield folding knives made from 1830 to ~1910. He has been wanting to sell a few but cannot get even 1/4 of what he paid about 5 or so years ago.
I doubt ebay has sold enough Jos. Rodgers knives of similar age and condition to establish 'market value'.
I like it !
Ballpark value ? $200 in my ballpark. Others might guess higher or lower.
You could price it high and see what happens. If no takers lower by $50 at a time and at some point someone will grab it.
kj

[knife7knut]

As others have stated the dates could be anywhere from 1901-1952. I am going to go out on a limb(without a saw)and say that it is probably the earlier date.I am only basing this on the appearance of the stag handles vis-a-vis the relative side to side matching and the coloring. The newer stag handles just do not have that look.JMHO

[kootenay joe]

Both Jos Rodgers & G. Wostenholm had piles of stag left over when they were sold in 1970 ?
Yes it has the appearance of older stag because it is but i believe J.R. had supplies of it into the 1970's.
We need a Brit to chime in here. Where is "Wellington" ?
kj

[Rookie]

Thank you all for all the helpful information. The knife does indeed taper slimmer at one end than the other, making it the sleeveboard shape. It has such nice looking stag, and no flaws in the handles at all. Pretty cool considering it's age.

[Corso]

but with the "England" on the blade it can be no older as that mark was required after the tariff act of 1890

I'm not sure thats 100% true unless at some p;oint that act was repealed? - I think it only applies for knives planned to be imported into the US - I've plenty of sheffield knives not marked 'England' that were made after 1890

This is a chart I've seen used to date Cut throats on another forum

My guess as has already been suggested would be around the 1920's-30's

Value? over here atleast around the £100 mark

[kootenay joe]

Corso, the absence of "England" as you state does not prove a knife was made before 1891.
But, the presence of "England" does prove manufacture as being after 1891.
kj

[Gunsil]

Agreed. I don't really see many post 1891 English knives marked without the 'England" for the British or other markets though. Since the US was the target market or at least the larger market for Sheffield cutleries there would be little to no reason for them to use more than one maker's mark. Stamps wear out and cost money, few companies if any would maintain two sets of stamps.

[Corso]

Only my Rodgers and Sons knives are marked 'England'

None of My I*XL's, Johnsons or other Sheffield folders have the mark

[Mr. Chips]

Only my Rodgers and Sons knives are marked 'England'

None of My I*XL's, Johnsons or other Sheffield folders have the mark

Weird. ALL of my Sheffield knives have "England" on them, including several I*XL's.
You must have some really old ones.

[Corso]

Not sure

I'm in England - if they weren't being shipped overseas there probably wasn't the need for the stamp?

[kootenay joe]

Not sure

I'm in England - if they weren't being shipped overseas there probably wasn't the need for the stamp?

Read Gunsil's post above.
kj

[Corso]

Not sure

I'm in England - if they weren't being shipped overseas there probably wasn't the need for the stamp?

Read Gunsil's post above.
kj

you've lost me?

I've said I have IXL's etc without the 'England' Mark

Gunsil is saying its expensive to have 2 different Marks?

And yet knives afer those dates without the mark exist...

I would suggest that there was a period where the Sheffield knives lost favour and stamps that had worn out weren't worth replacing with the addititonal line as the Market was closed off by US makers

[kootenay joe]

How about posting pictures of these knives without "England" so we can 'read the knife' and see if it looks pre or post 1891. If these are knives made say in 1930's or 1950's they will not look like knives made before 1891.
It is always tempting to theorize an explanation for how a knife or markings came to be, but this just makes for more future confusion as others take the theory to be fact. Best to stick with what is already known until proof otherwise is discovered.
Let's see the knives and then discuss age.
kj

[Ripster]

If as U All say ,in1891 or whenever they changed to stamping for shipping to U.S. Market. And previous to that they had a stamp they had been using for ? There’d then be 2 sets of stamps at the shop ,? Then could there have been some transition where they were stamped both ways in the change period. And of Course if they stayed in country, no country of origin stamp. I am just kind of tossing this around in my head. SO PLEASE help me get it out of there!! Have a good weekend folks. JP

[kootenay joe]

I have seen old British knives with "England" marked on the back side tang. The front tang has the manufacturer's usual markings with "Sheffield" being the last line. There are also examples of the same knife, same manufacturer with markings only on the front side tang with "England" being the last line and under "Sheffield".
My thought is that knives with "England" on the back side were likely made soon after 1891 and blades made before 1891 were being used so "England" was added to the back tang to comply with the 'new' USA import rules.
Note this is what i THINK might be the case. It is not FACT unless someone can post supporting evidence.
kj