Restricted Access Threads.

[cudgee]

Overnight i received a PM from Bryan notifying me that i have been added to the restricted access threads. I just opened one of these threads, just to see how it all works, all good and easy. Hopefully this will defuse a situation that has been a bit heated of late. If you want access it is there for you, if not, you cannot read or participate in these thread, the decision is now yours. In the light of day when things have settled down a bit, i think, the right decision has been made to try an appease everyone. To quote Elliot Ness in the movie the Untouchables when they were on a stake out, " Gentleman, if you've got em, smoke em". Take care, everyone.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Well, if the right four or five people subscribe to the Restricted Access Threads, then really nothing will change, will it?

I gave up on the possibility of self-controlled civility on those threads some weeks back.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

I feel no need to participate. Those who post tend to attack more than discuss/debate and this can discourage 'free speech' i.e. people either don't post or don't post the full extent of their thoughts because they do not want the ensuing insults.
Now that these forums are 'restricted' i think it will either be people of the same mind cheering each other on, or a real slug-fest brawl.
However as i am not joining, i will never know.
kj

[orvet]

I think perhaps there is a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of the hidden topic forums. The purpose of these two forums is to allow members to discuss these topics without subjecting the rest of the forum to a topic in which they have no interest and they may find divisive. No matter what country we currently live in, we live in a time of the great deal of stress with the Corona pandemic affecting most countries of the world, the US election heavily affecting the future of this country, and many others as well. Some of our members from other countries have said they watch our politics very closely. Members I have talked to from Australia are concerned that if the US takes a swing towards Marxism's it will have a negative impact on Australia also. So, we do see a lot of stress in this election, pandemic, unemployment, mask wearing, social distancing, etc., etc., etc.

The restricted access forums allow members to discuss these matters that concern them, they can voice opinions and disagree with one another, if done respectfully. Some of the topics that I have locked in the past were frankly an embarrassment to AAPK, and I know most of our members aren't here to argue politics or social movements, they are here to talk about knives.

On the other hand we have a lot of people who have made deep friendships over the years, perhaps they met on AAPK and got to know one another in person at knife shows, (or vice versa) and they like to discuss things beside knives; things like gardens, pets, children, grandchildren, guns, cars, photography and so forth. If you look through the off-topic forums you will find a lot of things that people enjoy talking about with their friends. If you don't want to talk about your pets or someone else's don't go to the Show Us Your Pets topic (91 pages currently). If you don't like baseball you probably won't like the 215 pages in the Are There Any BASEBALL Fans in This Forum? topic. If you don't like to look at Pictures of Miscellaneous Stuff and Things, then don't look at the 466 pages in that forum, or the hundred and 35 pages in the What Do Y'all Look like? forum. And if you don't like saying “Hi” to your fellow members early in the morning, then for crying out loud stay out of the 1st Cup Diner forum! It's only 2050 pages long. I'm not sure if there's any other topic anywhere in AAPK that's so long.

We have 22,590 members currently. Not everybody's going to be interested in the same things not everybody's going to agree on everything and that's okay. The whole point of the off-topic limited access forums is to allow members the place to express their opinions without upsetting members who don't want to hear or see those opinions which they may come in contact with by accident. The other is to keep guests from being subject to discussions that they may not wish to hear. As someone pointed out one of the topics that was part of this discussion is that there are lots of places to go to discuss politics, or whatever other off-topic subjects you may want to discuss. There are political forums dedicated exclusively to politics, but when I want to discuss current events, or brainstorm ideas and I would rather do it with friends than with strangers, I think most of our members feel that way.
I enjoy discussing issues with people that I may not agree with, and I have had them affect my opinion. Rarely do they change my opinion 180° but they might change it 15° or 20°, that can be enough of a change if we both change one another's opinions and both move 10° closer to the other person's opinion we will eventually cross paths and we might even discover a point of agreement and maybe a deeper point of friendship.

Those who have participated in the discussions, on whichever side of an issue are welcome to join the restricted access forums and continue discussions there. Most of the topics that were of a political or controversial nature have been moved. There are 332 topics with 3789 posts in the Restricted Access Political Forum. In the Controversial Off-Topic Forum there are 45 topics and 1423.

If you want to discuss politics or controversial topics not related to knives you are free to join those limited access forums. Do not make political posts, social commentary post or virtue signaling posts in the open forum. I don't think it's fair for a small vocal minority to ruling AAPK for all the other members. The other off-topic forms will remain as they are. If the Upper Room Forum and people praying for one another offend you, don't read it. If you don't like the Mostly True Stories forum don't go in there. Pretty dang simple but I don't think it's appropriate to ruin AAPK for 22,584 people when I have a dozen people and find something to complain about in one of the forums.

I think the interests of our members are even more diverse than the brands and types of knives that they collect. I may not share much interest with someone who collects Fight 'n Rooster Knives. That doesn't mean that someone else’s is interests is invalid or that I have the right to be offended because someone collects Fight 'n Rooster Knives. If those knives don't interest me, I can stay out of that forum! I do not need to figure out some way in which Fight ’n Rooster Knives offend me (must be the celluloid) and demand that that forum be closed because I have offended. No, I can stay back out of the forum and leave the people there alone. I don’t need to go into their forum and tell them their knives are bad, or that celluloid offends me or any other such nonsense. All it does is stir up resentment, hard feelings and eventually trouble.

If someone does not want to join the new – Political Discussion Forum, or the new – Controversial Off-Topic Discussion forum in the Limited Access Forums, then that is fine. That is a place where you can express your opinion whether it's popular or unpopular. You can discuss it with other members if you do so in a respectful manner.

I feel no need to participate. Those who post tend to attack more than discuss/debate and this can discourage 'free speech' i.e. people either don't post or don't post the full extent of their thoughts because they do not want the ensuing insults.

Having been the administrator/referee in the midst of these off-topic frays I will have to say KJ, you gave as good as you received in the attack and insult department!

Now that these forums are 'restricted' i think it will either be people of the same mind cheering each other on, or a real slug-fest brawl.
However as i am not joining, i will never know.
kj

Well, if you don't join these forums, it may be most people will be of the same mind cheering each other on, as you say.
However, I assure you it will not be "a real slug-fest brawl" as you call it, as long as I am administering these forums. That is not something I have ever allowed, and I don't intend to start now.

I am really fine with most of the people having the same opinion, it makes it much easier to administer and takes up a lot less of my time.

FOR ANYONE WHO MISSED THE ANNOUNCEMENT:
if you would like to have access to these limited access forums, the Controversial Off Topic Discussions and Political Discussions forums send Bryan a PM (private message) and he will put you on the list so that you can access them. I don’t have the information to do that, Bryan is the only one.

[carrmillus]

......AMEN!!!............ ...................

[kootenay joe]

Quote: "Having been the administrator/referee in the midst of these off-topic frays I will have to say KJ, you gave as good as you received in the attack and insult department!"

Dale i do not insult others. i always try to post straight forward reasoning in an objective way. I avoid name calling because it adds nothing.
Telling some i disagree with them is not insulting that person.
Please link me to a post in which i am insulting others. Maybe i need to read what i have posted to learn something.
kj

[LongBlade]

I agree with Charlie above - nothing will change but it will be behind closed doors... like Charlie I throw my hands up and say whatever...

I think perhaps there is a basic misunderstanding of the purpose of the hidden topic forums. The purpose of these two forums is to allow members to discuss these topics without subjecting the rest of the forum to a topic in which they have no interest and they may find divisive. No matter what country we currently live in, we live in a time of the great deal of stress with the Corona pandemic affecting most countries of the world, the US election heavily affecting the future of this country, and many others as well. Some of our members from other countries have said they watch our politics very closely. Members I have talked to from Australia are concerned that if the US takes a swing towards Marxism's it will have a negative impact on Australia also. So, we do see a lot of stress in this election, pandemic, unemployment, mask wearing, social distancing, etc., etc., etc.

The restricted access forums allow members to discuss these matters that concern them, they can voice opinions and disagree with one another, if done respectfully. Some of the topics that I have locked in the past were frankly an embarrassment to AAPK, and I know most of our members aren't here to argue politics or social movements, they are here to talk about knives.

On the other hand we have a lot of people who have made deep friendships over the years, perhaps they met on AAPK and got to know one another in person at knife shows, (or vice versa) and they like to discuss things beside knives; things like gardens, pets, children, grandchildren, guns, cars, photography and so forth. If you look through the off-topic forums you will find a lot of things that people enjoy talking about with their friends. If you don't want to talk about your pets or someone else's don't go to the Show Us Your Pets topic (91 pages currently). If you don't like baseball you probably won't like the 215 pages in the Are There Any BASEBALL Fans in This Forum? topic. If you don't like to look at Pictures of Miscellaneous Stuff and Things, then don't look at the 466 pages in that forum, or the hundred and 35 pages in the What Do Y'all Look like? forum. And if you don't like saying “Hi” to your fellow members early in the morning, then for crying out loud stay out of the 1st Cup Diner forum! It's only 2050 pages long. I'm not sure if there's any other topic anywhere in AAPK that's so long.

We have 22,590 members currently. Not everybody's going to be interested in the same things not everybody's going to agree on everything and that's okay. The whole point of the off-topic limited access forums is to allow members the place to express their opinions without upsetting members who don't want to hear or see those opinions which they may come in contact with by accident. The other is to keep guests from being subject to discussions that they may not wish to hear. As someone pointed out one of the topics that was part of this discussion is that there are lots of places to go to discuss politics, or whatever other off-topic subjects you may want to discuss. There are political forums dedicated exclusively to politics, but when I want to discuss current events, or brainstorm ideas and I would rather do it with friends than with strangers, I think most of our members feel that way.
I enjoy discussing issues with people that I may not agree with, and I have had them affect my opinion. Rarely do they change my opinion 180° but they might change it 15° or 20°, that can be enough of a change if we both change one another's opinions and both move 10° closer to the other person's opinion we will eventually cross paths and we might even discover a point of agreement and maybe a deeper point of friendship.

Those who have participated in the discussions, on whichever side of an issue are welcome to join the restricted access forums and continue discussions there. Most of the topics that were of a political or controversial nature have been moved. There are 332 topics with 3789 posts in the Restricted Access Political Forum. In the Controversial Off-Topic Forum there are 45 topics and 1423.

If you want to discuss politics or controversial topics not related to knives you are free to join those limited access forums. Do not make political posts, social commentary post or virtue signaling posts in the open forum. I don't think it's fair for a small vocal minority to ruling AAPK for all the other members. The other off-topic forms will remain as they are. If the Upper Room Forum and people praying for one another offend you, don't read it. If you don't like the Mostly True Stories forum don't go in there. Pretty dang simple but I don't think it's appropriate to ruin AAPK for 22,584 people when I have a dozen people and find something to complain about in one of the forums.

I think the interests of our members are even more diverse than the brands and types of knives that they collect. I may not share much interest with someone who collects Fight 'n Rooster Knives. That doesn't mean that someone else’s is interests is invalid or that I have the right to be offended because someone collects Fight 'n Rooster Knives. If those knives don't interest me, I can stay out of that forum! I do not need to figure out some way in which Fight ’n Rooster Knives offend me (must be the celluloid) and demand that that forum be closed because I have offended. No, I can stay back out of the forum and leave the people there alone. I don’t need to go into their forum and tell them their knives are bad, or that celluloid offends me or any other such nonsense. All it does is stir up resentment, hard feelings and eventually trouble.

If someone does not want to join the new – Political Discussion Forum, or the new – Controversial Off-Topic Discussion forum in the Limited Access Forums, then that is fine. That is a place where you can express your opinion whether it's popular or unpopular. You can discuss it with other members if you do so in a respectful manner.

I feel no need to participate. Those who post tend to attack more than discuss/debate and this can discourage 'free speech' i.e. people either don't post or don't post the full extent of their thoughts because they do not want the ensuing insults.

Having been the administrator/referee in the midst of these off-topic frays I will have to say KJ, you gave as good as you received in the attack and insult department!

Now that these forums are 'restricted' i think it will either be people of the same mind cheering each other on, or a real slug-fest brawl.
However as i am not joining, i will never know.
kj

Well, if you don't join these forums, it may be most people will be of the same mind cheering each other on, as you say.
However, I assure you it will not be "a real slug-fest brawl" as you call it, as long as I am administering these forums. That is not something I have ever allowed, and I don't intend to start now.

I am really fine with most of the people having the same opinion, it makes it much easier to administer and takes up a lot less of my time.

FOR ANYONE WHO MISSED THE ANNOUNCEMENT:
if you would like to have access to these limited access forums, the Controversial Off Topic Discussions and Political Discussions forums send Bryan a PM (private message) and he will put you on the list so that you can access them. I don’t have the information to do that, Bryan is the only one.

Quote: "Having been the administrator/referee in the midst of these off-topic frays I will have to say KJ, you gave as good as you received in the attack and insult department!"

Dale i do not insult others. i always try to post straight forward reasoning in an objective way. I avoid name calling because it adds nothing.
Telling some i disagree with them is not insulting that person.
Please link me to a post in which i am insulting others. Maybe i need to read what i have posted to learn something.
kj

However, personally and my opinion in view of Orvet's post - I think in contrast to continuing to jump on KJ (and Eustace) for commenting I do believe an apology is in order for them - They have every right in this forum to voice an opinion even if they lived on the moon as they are members with every right of every other member! I don't see any insults from neither KJ nor Eustace - they are giving the worldly view of a country that is/was supposed to be the best, biggest and strongest - a leader in the world and as such affects all the world... right now it surely does not seem like we are a world leader - the world is laughing at us for being so ignorant, for example, as to have to force mask wearing which is one example (morning headlines: government officials fight over mask wearing while the death toll hits a new record in the US) - what boggles my mind is we are stupidly fighting over wearing a damn mask in this country that can, if all abide, save lives and infection that can leave permanent damage or worse.... I don't get it - your rights are being compromised by wearing a mask?? - BS - you are possibly saving lives.... Mark my words - if everybody does not get wise and do the "smart/right" thing we will never get out from under this virus - more will be infected, more will die and this country as we know it will crumble, and we will not return to what we all knew as "normal"... It's been said once and I will say it again - the virus has no political affiliation and doesn't discriminate on infection and the possibility of dying...

Oh btw - JerryD wants his AAPK back - I think many have gone over the line on those forums - in fact one comment in particular by a particular forum member - "the democrats need to disappear, "permanently"" and than something about I am not suggesting anything illegal with a "wink, wink" - why was that not flagged as I see that way more problematic than having non-American citizens comment - and btw already the forum has had members leave or pull back from participating on any forum due to all this.... oh I forgot putting it behind closed doors will fix the problem ... out of sight out of mind - life doesn't work that way at least for me...

[orvet]

Well, since this topic has turned contentious & controversial, it is about ready to be moved into the Controversial Off Topic forum which is in the restricted access forums.

[kootenay joe]

so then you prevent any opinions that differ from your own. This is not 'moderation'. It is Total Control.
kj

[LongBlade]

Agree with KJ ....

[cudgee]

Old Quote-" You can't please all the people all of the time " End Quote.

[glennbad]

so then you prevent any opinions that differ from your own. This is not 'moderation'. It is Total Control.
kj

Roland,

I'm trying to understand why you feel your opinions are restricted from being heard. Just because the particular subforum is restricted access, doesn't mean you can't read or post in it. You simply need to contact Bryan for access. Nobody is denied or refused access to those forums, they are just hidden from those who don't want to see them.

Nobody is denied access to them, nobody.

[kootenay joe]

I was referring to moving this thread in which the topic of creating restricted threads is being discussed. It is important to keep this thread open for all to see and post an opinion if they want to.
If it gets put into the "R" area many members will not see it because they will not join the "R" group.
This thread is about the advisability of creating "R" forums and so should be open without having to join the proposed "R" group.
kj

[glennbad]

I was referring to moving this thread in which the topic of creating restricted threads is being discussed. It is important to keep this thread open for all to see and post an opinion if they want to.
If it gets put into the "R" area many members will not see it because they will not join the "R" group.
This thread is about the advisability of creating "R" forums and so should be open without having to join the proposed "R" group.
kj

I understand your point, thanks for clarifying it.

[Greenman]

I agree with Charlie above - nothing will change but it will be behind closed doors... like Charlie I throw my hands up and say whatever...

…However, personally and my opinion in view of Orvet's post - I think in contrast to continuing to jump on KJ (and Eustace) for commenting I do believe an apology is in order for them - They have every right in this forum to voice an opinion even if they lived on the moon as they are members with every right of every other member! I don't see any insults from neither KJ nor Eustace - they are giving the worldly view of a country that is/was supposed to be the best, biggest and strongest - a leader in the world and as such affects all the world... right now it surely does not seem like we are a world leader - the world is laughing at us for being so ignorant, for example, as to have to force mask wearing which is one example (morning headlines: government officials fight over mask wearing while the death toll hits a new record in the US) - what boggles my mind is we are stupidly fighting over wearing a damn mask in this country that can, if all abide, save lives and infection that can leave permanent damage or worse.... I don't get it - your rights are being compromised by wearing a mask?? - BS - you are possibly saving lives.... Mark my words - if everybody does not get wise and do the "smart/right" thing we will never get out from under this virus - more will be infected, more will die and this country as we know it will crumble, and we will not return to what we all knew as "normal"... It's been said once and I will say it again - the virus has no political affiliation and doesn't discriminate on infection and the possibility of dying...

Oh btw - JerryD wants his AAPK back - I think many have gone over the line on those forums - in fact one comment in particular by a particular forum member - "the democrats need to disappear, "permanently"" and than something about I am not suggesting anything illegal with a "wink, wink" - why was that not flagged as I see that way more problematic than having non-American citizens comment - and btw already the forum has had members leave or pull back from participating on any forum due to all this.... oh I forgot putting it behind closed doors will fix the problem ... out of sight out of mind - life doesn't work that way at least for me...

Well stated, LongBlade! Thank you for injecting some much-needed logic, common sense, and sanity into these otherwise ridiculously insane dogfights. I was going to add some additional commentary, but I find that there is no need—you’ve already succinctly articulated that which desperately needed to be said…

.

[kootenay joe]

Very good to get some light from the dark side of the moon.
kj

[carrmillus]

.........I think i'll just stay off of this topic, too!!!!................ ..........................

[LongBlade]

I agree with Charlie above - nothing will change but it will be behind closed doors... like Charlie I throw my hands up and say whatever...

…However, personally and my opinion in view of Orvet's post - I think in contrast to continuing to jump on KJ (and Eustace) for commenting I do believe an apology is in order for them - They have every right in this forum to voice an opinion even if they lived on the moon as they are members with every right of every other member! I don't see any insults from neither KJ nor Eustace - they are giving the worldly view of a country that is/was supposed to be the best, biggest and strongest - a leader in the world and as such affects all the world... right now it surely does not seem like we are a world leader - the world is laughing at us for being so ignorant, for example, as to have to force mask wearing which is one example (morning headlines: government officials fight over mask wearing while the death toll hits a new record in the US) - what boggles my mind is we are stupidly fighting over wearing a damn mask in this country that can, if all abide, save lives and infection that can leave permanent damage or worse.... I don't get it - your rights are being compromised by wearing a mask?? - BS - you are possibly saving lives.... Mark my words - if everybody does not get wise and do the "smart/right" thing we will never get out from under this virus - more will be infected, more will die and this country as we know it will crumble, and we will not return to what we all knew as "normal"... It's been said once and I will say it again - the virus has no political affiliation and doesn't discriminate on infection and the possibility of dying...

Oh btw - JerryD wants his AAPK back - I think many have gone over the line on those forums - in fact one comment in particular by a particular forum member - "the democrats need to disappear, "permanently"" and than something about I am not suggesting anything illegal with a "wink, wink" - why was that not flagged as I see that way more problematic than having non-American citizens comment - and btw already the forum has had members leave or pull back from participating on any forum due to all this.... oh I forgot putting it behind closed doors will fix the problem ... out of sight out of mind - life doesn't work that way at least for me...

Well stated, LongBlade! Thank you for injecting some much-needed logic, common sense, and sanity into these otherwise ridiculously insane dogfights. I was going to add some additional commentary, but I find that there is no need—you’ve already succinctly articulated that which desperately needed to be said…

.

Thanks Josh ...

[Greenman]

Very good to get some light from the dark side of the moon.
kj

[1967redrider]

Well, since this topic has turned contentious & controversial, it is about ready to be moved into the Controversial Off Topic forum which is in the restricted access forums.

We have Restricted Access Threads?

[orvet]

We certainly do. The restricted access threads are available to any member who request them. Just send a PM to Bryan and he will add you to the restricted access threads.
They are the Political Discussion Forum and the Controversial Off-Topic Discussion forum.
When you are given access to the restricted threads you will find those two forums listed at the bottom of the Off-Topic Forums. Those are the only two things that are in the restricted access threads or forums. Hopefully that's all we will need there..

Request for access has to be sent by PM to Bryan. The other administrators, Phil and myself don't have access to add people in. I think it has to do with the complexity of the process on the admin side of the program itself and that it's not an easy piece to access for somebody like me who is not a computer whiz.

[cudgee]

We certainly do. The restricted access threads are available to any member who request them. Just send a PM to Bryan and he will add you to the restricted access threads.
They are the Political Discussion Forum and the Controversial Off-Topic Discussion forum.
When you are given access to the restricted threads you will find those two forums listed at the bottom of the Off-Topic Forums. Those are the only two things that are in the restricted access threads or forums. Hopefully that's all we will need there..

Request for access has to be sent by PM to Bryan. The other administrators, Phil and myself don't have access to add people in. I think it has to do with the complexity of the process on the admin side of the program itself and that it's not an easy piece to access for somebody like me who is not a computer whiz.

Now that is a common thread i reckon on the forum, " Not A Computer Whiz ". Sorry just could not help myself.

[1967redrider]