Surf Fishing

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

I want to state right upfront that I am NOT a fisherman. Growing up, my family fished only occasionally, and that fishing was entirely confined to dropping a Sabeki rig off the side of the pier when we went to the beach for a vacation. We would catch little surf perch & other small fish. Every couple of years, I might get invited to go fishing at a lake or river for trout or bluegill. I rarely caught anything on those trips.

Now I live within walking distance of the beach, and I often see people fishing for perch, striped bass, corbina and even halibut. There are also yellow tail croakers, bat rays, guitarfish and leopard sharks caught here. On the rocks near the jetties, they catch rock fish, cabazon & calico bass. We have tons of sand crabs at the surf line.

So - I think I want to get into this. I'm not looking for monsters, and I'm not going to get crazy - I just want to have the ability to occasionally walk out to the beach or the harbor with a pole and some gear and try to catch some fish. I'll probably catch & release everything - my wife hates the smell of fish.

All I have right now are a current ocean fishing license, and a couple of very, very light & cheap spinning rods & reels that would be more suited to fishing for minnows at the park. Sam's Club has a deal on an 8 ft Ugly Stik combo for ~$50. I'm thinking that, plus some braided line, hooks, sinkers and maybe a few swim baits & jigs for variety and I should be ready to give it a go.

What do you think? What else do I need?

[Jeffinn]

One of those inexpensive rod holders that you push into the sand and place your rod in while you’re waiting for those big ones to bite. I haven’t done a lot of surf fishing but did do some on the coast of North Carolina for a few years. It doesn’t require a lot of gear. Like you said, a decent rod and reel (and Im a big Ugly Stick fan), some strong line and whatever bait or lures they’re currently using to catch fish. Any of the local bait shops should be able to steer you in the right direction on what bait or lures to use. Bait fishing is easier, lure fishing requires more work. In Carolina we used cut up pieces of fish or sometimes shrimp. The best part about coastal fishing is that you just never know what you’re going to catch.
Have fun!
Jeff

[Old Hunter]

I enjoy surf fishing in eastern NC but have very little knowledge of surf fishing in California. I will say that I am a fan of Ugly Stik rods - you get a well made and durable rod for low money. That said I think their reels are junky, salt is tough on a reel and the Ugly Stik reels are generics packaged to make it easy (cheap) to buy the combo. I would look at Penn (actually also owned by Pure Fishing) - much higher grade reels. You can buy a Penn Combo for about the same money and have a better reel. Right now the tackle shops in my area are selling the Penn Fierce II combo's at half price (about what you would pay for the Ugly Stik combo). They are doing this because the Fierce II has been upgraded to the Fierce III. I own a Fierce II 8000 and use it for my heavy surf rig (it is on an 11' Ugly Stik Big Water rod) - that combo is nearly five years old and going strong. The normal combo reels (like the Ugly Stik reel) are designed to work for a few weeks or a season. If you are patient the Penn Battle II reel and combo will go on half price sale soon - that reel is quite a step above the Fierce II but is being replaced by the Battle III effective with the iCast show (the fishing worlds big show - like Blade is to knives) - iCast should be going on now but has gone virtual due to COVID19. The current Battle II is a helluva good saltwater reel and will last you for years. I usually like to surf fish with the 5000/5500 size reel on an 8' rod - that will do for most everything you will catch UNLESS you are after the big stuff, then a big 8000 size reel comes into play. Hope this isn't confusing the issue for you. OH
Ps You use your medium or large rod to "bait and wait" while you use a light rod to work the bubbles with a jighead and soft swimshad. My favorite combo for that is a Daiwa BG3000 reel, 12 lbs Sunline mono, mounted on an Ugly Stik Elite 7'-0" Medium - Fast rod - great action and fishes way above it's class.

[Gunsil]

I am an avid surf fisherman here on the east coast, spend a month every year fishing my tail off in MA. We prefer 11' rods for longer casts and to keep the line up from the shore break of surf. The 8' will work for sure but you may want to go 10' or more. I'd go down to where you are thinking of fishing and see what the regulars or pros are using and do what they do. We like dawn or dusk and night time, but I have caught plenty of stripers in broad daylight. Like Jeff says a simple "sand spike" of PVC (you can make your own) or purchase one is important for waiting for a bite while bait fishing. You gotta get it down into the sand far enough that it won't pull out when a fish hits and runs, and it is best to loosen the drag on the reel enough that a fish won't pull your rod into the sea. Gotta have a tight enough drag so the fish hooks itself, yet light enough he won't pull the rod out. We use only "circle" hooks which if you aren't used to them look like they might not work, but they are deadly effective. You get fewer gut hooked fish with the circle hooks, they usually hook them in the jaw. It is a great hobby, especially if you like sunrise and sunset on the water or just hanging out on the beach during the day with the benefit of catching some fresh food for the table. Many surf rats like the two hours before and after high tide, but it may not be so important where you are if there is deep water near the beach. Have a blast and catch 'em up!! Again, hang out where you'd like to go and ask the locals how and what they find best for rods, reels, rigs, bait, etc, most fishermen are glad to share their knowledge.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Here's a youtube video of some guy fishing the same area where I would be fishing. He's using a soft plastic bait, but most of the people I see are using either sand crabs or mussels because they are free and readily available around here. Most of the guys I see are using 8 to 10 foot medium or medium-heavy rods with spinning reels around 4000 or 5000 size (it's hard to tell).

https://youtu.be/c0SnrMQAd54?t=196


Today I walked out to the beach at around noon and there was an older couple fishing the surf. Today was a nice day, 75 deg & very sunny, so the beach was very busy with lots of kids & surfers in the waves. It was about an hour before high tide and there was maybe 2-3 foot of surf. This is all pretty typical for us.

The couple caught two nice-sized Corbina while I was watching them. The fish were both about 14 or 15 inches. They were using mussels. From what I have read, the California Corbina is supposed to be a very tough fish to catch. They are wary and are not aggressive feeders.

Good advice from everyone!

[cudgee]

I like to keep things simple, and in fishing the less is more principle applies. Use the lightest gear you can for the conditions. The heavier the gear, the more the fish can feel resistance and may be hesitant to take the bait or lure. From what you have said, you do not have heavy surf/wave conditions, so observe what type of gear other people are using, ask a local tackle shop, and try to get the most suitable/lightest gear. If i can give you one piece of advise, observe the rips, currents and sweep conditions, fish will congregate where there is a rip channel running back out to sea, it is a food smorgasbord for them. Like knives, with fishing, ask, observe and listen, you never stop learning, good luck.

[schradefan27]

Great advice thus far - we should have a fishing thread!

I have done surf in the Northeast [Mainly in CT and Long Island NY] and "beach" fishing in Florida.

The longer the rod the longer the cast - I also love ugly sticks for bait but use a Loomis Salmon rod for lures.

As to braid lines I like Power-Pro best, but usually stick to mono.

Shimano reels may seem pricey but will last a lifetime [or at least 20+ years in my actual experience - and still going strong - same with Penn as the gent above mentioned]

Be aware this may turn into a knife like obsession!

[RobesonsRme.com]

Just as an aside; I once saw a man fishing on a Florida beach. The wind was blowing offshore and he had a kite way out beyond the breakers. He had a small parachute, made from a handkerchief with a closed coat hanger hook and a small clip. He attached his baited line to the clip and the wind took it and the parachute up the kite string. When it got near the kite, he jerked the fishing line out of the clip, dropping his bait into the water. The parachute had a line attached to bring it back to him.

No idea if that was advantageous, but I thought it pure genius.

Charlie

[schradefan27]

Just as an aside; I once saw a man fishing on a Florida beach. The wind was blowing offshore and he had a kite way out beyond the breakers. He had a small parachute, made from a handkerchief with a closed coat hanger hook and a small clip. He attached his baited line to the clip and the wind took it and the parachute up the kite string. When it got near the kite, he jerked the fishing line out of the clip, dropping his bait into the water. The parachute had a line attached to bring it back to him.

No idea if that was advantageous, but I thought it pure genius.

Charlie

That's a great casting technique! There are a lot of people flying drones at the beach these days, i've wondered if a person could use a drone to troll a spoon or DOA shrimp?

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

The big rage here is to use plastic kayaks to fish beyond the harbor jetties. Out here, those guys can get big lingcod and halibut. They outfit those kayaks with all their gear - rod holders for multiple rods, coolers for icing the fish, stringers, nets, even fishfinders with GPS & GoPro cameras. They paddle around with their fishfinder sensor below the boat, looking for rocky structures that would have ling cod, or sandy stretches with halibut. They can then troll back and forth over the areas bouncing live bait.

But, launching a kayak and paddling around in the open ocean is a young man's game. No way you would get me out there in a hollowed-out piece of plastic that is smaller than the sharks we also have out here!

[cudgee]

Just as an aside; I once saw a man fishing on a Florida beach. The wind was blowing offshore and he had a kite way out beyond the breakers. He had a small parachute, made from a handkerchief with a closed coat hanger hook and a small clip. He attached his baited line to the clip and the wind took it and the parachute up the kite string. When it got near the kite, he jerked the fishing line out of the clip, dropping his bait into the water. The parachute had a line attached to bring it back to him.

No idea if that was advantageous, but I thought it pure genius.

Charlie

They do that technique in New Zealand using a small raft with a sail on it to get past the breakers, but they run a line out with drop leads about every 5-6 feet, this is attached to a reel on the beach, very successful way to feed a large family, which i think is what is was originally designed for.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

WELL...

I spent some money today!

I went ahead and bought the 8 ft Ugly Stik "Big Water" combo at Sam's Club.
https://www.samsclub.com/p/ugly-stik-bw ... roduct_1_7

We only have two tackle shops in town, and both of them have very limited selections of lower cost rods & reels. They make their primary money from big offshore set-ups for deep ocean & sport fishing. If you want to catch a 30" Lingcod or Yellowtail & Bluefin Tuna, that's where you go, and they'll order whatever you want. That's just not my goal.

My thinking is that my requirements are: an 8 ft rod because that's a good compromise size that will let me fish the surf, the rocks, the pier and the docks at the harbor. I don't think I really need to launch out 100+ yards. What I do need is the ability to launch at least 1-2 ounces. The Ugly Stik Bigwater is rated for 3/4 - 3 Oz. I think that's perfect. Yes, the Shakespeare reel that comes with it is cheap - but it is essentially free, and I might as well try it and see if this entire enterprise is just beyond my skills. In fact, the reel is *less* than free - and that's the best part of the story...

The Ugly Stik rod, by itself sells elsewhere for $60, at Sam's club, with the reel, it is $53. AND, I had $18.48 in rewards bucks on my Sam's account, so my out the door price was $38.25! You guys know how much I like bottom feeding for deals...

After getting my stupendous deal, I went over to Dick's Sporting Goods and bought a spool of 20 lb braid and some Fluoro for leader, plus a pile of other misc stuff (hooks, swivels, etc, etc). I spent more at Dicks than I did for the rod & reel! I probably could have saved some money buying online, but I didn't want to wait.

So - now I need to learn how to do some things that I have never done before:

1) Put braid on a spinning reel. I do understand that I need to put on some mono backing or use a piece of tape to keep the braid from slipping on the reel. I've never put any type of line on a reel, so this should be an adventure.

2) How to tie real fishing knots. The only knots I ever learned how to tie are a bowline and a trucker's hitch. Neither of those are useful for fishing! (I suppose if I ever need to tie down a Great White Shark into the bed of a pickup truck, I'll be ready!) There are tons of youtube videos on how to tie a Palomar, Uni, etc. How hard could it be?

[Gunsil]

I think you should save the braid for another time and go mono. Braid eats stainless guides up and fairly quickly. It wears grooves in the guide which then abrade the line causing broken line and lost fish. Braid will even wear through cheaper ceramic guides. Silicon carbide (expensive) guides are recommended for braid. If you do use the braid you would do well to use a mono shock leader twice the length of the rod since 20 LB braid is quite thin and will tear your forefinger up when casting hard. Or wrap your finger with tape. This is no joke, I have seen really deep ugly cuts on fingers from braid which is like a mini saw blade. I sling a big heavy 12 footer with 20 LB braid and have a 30LB mono shocker so my finger doesn't get torn up. Even an 8' rod can generate lure or sinker speeds well over a hundred MPH and braid slices fast. Check out shock leaders if you have never heard of them. Also I use the easy to tie uni-knot it never fails. When winding line on a spinning reel one has somebody else hold the spool of line on a pencil or dowel keeping a little pressure on the line spool so it doesn't over run while you wind the line on. The spool of line needs to rotate the same direction as your bail rotates on the reel. Or take the reel and line to a tackle shop and let them run it on with a machine. If you take my advice and not use the braid with your stainless guides just take your reel to a tackle shop and have them wind on mono from a bulk spool.

[cudgee]

I think you should save the braid for another time and go mono. Braid eats stainless guides up and fairly quickly. It wears grooves in the guide which then abrade the line causing broken line and lost fish. Braid will even wear through cheaper ceramic guides. Silicon carbide (expensive) guides are recommended for braid. If you do use the braid you would do well to use a mono shock leader twice the length of the rod since 20 LB braid is quite thin and will tear your forefinger up when casting hard. Or wrap your finger with tape. This is no joke, I have seen really deep ugly cuts on fingers from braid which is like a mini saw blade. I sling a big heavy 12 footer with 20 LB braid and have a 30LB mono shocker so my finger doesn't get torn up. Even an 8' rod can generate lure or sinker speeds well over a hundred MPH and braid slices fast. Check out shock leaders if you have never heard of them. Also I use the easy to tie uni-knot it never fails. When winding line on a spinning reel one has somebody else hold the spool of line on a pencil or dowel keeping a little pressure on the line spool so it doesn't over run while you wind the line on. The spool of line needs to rotate the same direction as your bail rotates on the reel. Or take the reel and line to a tackle shop and let them run it on with a machine. If you take my advice and not use the braid with your stainless guides just take your reel to a tackle shop and have them wind on mono from a bulk spool.

Excellent advise. I would avoid braid like the plague if surf or beach fishing. Unless you are experienced, can be an absolute nightmare. And can slice like a razor blade. There are lots of new and really good mono lines on the market now.

[schradefan27]

The knots to know:

Palomar knot

Improved clinch knot

Blood knot

I think if you have these down you're set. I attach the line to a spinning rod with a hangman's knot, but doubt that's the best way.

Get a hemostat and a pair of needle-nose pliers for salt-water fishing. You don't want your fingers in mystery fish mouths and its less injurious to the fish to simply use a tool to remove a hook rather than handling the fish.

Finally, the gents notes above about non-mono lines are true - I have had spectra snap on the cast of a lure [hard cast] and it is tough on rods and hands [spyder wire made rods in the 1990's for spectra lines]. That said Power-pro will add 20ft minimum to your cast.

Get out there and have some fun. And always have a sharp knife in your pocket!

[cudgee]

The knots to know:

Palomar knot

Improved clinch knot

Blood knot

I think if you have these down you're set. I attach the line to a spinning rod with a hangman's knot, but doubt that's the best way.

Get a hemostat and a pair of needle-nose pliers for salt-water fishing. You don't want your fingers in mystery fish mouths and its less injurious to the fish to simply use a tool to remove a hook rather than handling the fish.

Finally, the gents notes above about non-mono lines are true - I have had spectra snap on the cast of a lure [hard cast] and it is tough on rods and hands [spyder wire made rods in the 1990's for spectra lines]. That said Power-pro will add 20ft minimum to your cast.

Get out there and have some fun. And always have a sharp knife in your pocket!

You are quiet correct in everything you say. If i could indulge for one moment and use an analogy. Casting using braid is like getting out of a normal car into a Turbo-Charged car, plant the foot and it gets away from you and next thing you know you are wrapped around a tree. That is how quickly braid runs off the reel when you first use it, ending up in a birds nest. But once mastered, you get a lot more distance. I learnt to cast with it in my back yard. I bought a rod, loaded a reel with braid, bought a couple of practice casting plugs and learnt to get the feel of it, still had bird nests, but a lot better than having them while out doing what you want to be doing- FISHING, plus it is not cheap, and you do not want to be throwing money away. So good luck to all and sundry at AAPK who enjoy the piscatorial pursuit.

[Gunsil]

Cudgee, try the uni-knot, easier than palomar and improved clinch knots and can be used to connect running line to shock leader like a blood knot. Works on mono or braid and never fails. I mated on a charter fishing boat for several seasons and the uni was all we used. Works fine for attaching line to spool also, guess that's why it is called a uni-knot, works for just about everything. Can even work well tying a mono leader to a hook and if done right comes out just like a snell. Sounds like you are using a revolving spool reel if you got backlashes (birds nests), that won't happen on a big spinning reel as TFL has. Braid only flies faster and further because it is thinner for the same pound test as mono, it will not fly faster or further than mono of the same diameter, in fact I have found it a little slower (same diameter) since mono is smoother. Especially if the braid has a lot of use on it and it flattens out some. Wind resistance is the problem naturally. Also as I mentioned previously it will groove stainless guides and tip tops fairly quickly, silicon carbide guides are the only good ones to use with braid. For sure using a revolving spool reel one won't usually get cut by the braid but when using spinning reels badly cut forefingers is a real problem. I use braid only, but on spinning casting reels always use a mono shocker to keep my finger safe. All my rods also have silicon carbide guides, I build them myself.

[schradefan27]

^ Thank you sir I was unaware that spectra casts longer due to smaller size, and also was unaware of the versatility of the uni-knot.

Based on your Hudson-Valley location - I fished for stripers out of Kingston [1997 & 1998] with much luck. Is that fishery still doing well?

Tight lines!

[Gunsil]

^ Thank you sir I was unaware that spectra casts longer due to smaller size, and also was unaware of the versatility of the uni-knot.

Based on your Hudson-Valley location - I fished for stripers out of Kingston [1997 & 1998] with much luck. Is that fishery still doing well?

Tight lines!

I used to fish the Hudson stripers out of Croton in a 14' tin boat, sometimes did good other times not so good, never got any big ones there. I have a couple of friends who used to fish up closer to Kingston, also by boat and they did get some forty pounders but they stopped a few years back. The Hudson fishery drove me crazy since there were tournaments held during the spawn and many large females with eggs were killed which was detrimental to a healthy population. I haven't fished the Hudson for fifteen years, I do most of my fishing in MA. I think the Hudson population is still OK, it was the healthiest group of spawning bass (over the Chesapeake and Delaware) for many years. MA has a new rule this year, only fish 28-36" legal and one per day limit since the overall population has grown too small. I wish they'd just let them alone in all east coast states for a few years so they have a chance to regenerate. It sure is a great sight to see a forty pounder class fish surface in the surf after a good fight. of course 20s and 30s are nice too, I have never landed a fifty in the surf, and only one or two from a boat, all in the ocean in MA.

[schradefan27]

^ Thank you sir I was unaware that spectra casts longer due to smaller size, and also was unaware of the versatility of the uni-knot.

Based on your Hudson-Valley location - I fished for stripers out of Kingston [1997 & 1998] with much luck. Is that fishery still doing well?

Tight lines!

I used to fish the Hudson stripers out of Croton in a 14' tin boat, sometimes did good other times not so good, never got any big ones there. I have a couple of friends who used to fish up closer to Kingston, also by boat and they did get some forty pounders but they stopped a few years back. The Hudson fishery drove me crazy since there were tournaments held during the spawn and many large females with eggs were killed which was detrimental to a healthy population. I haven't fished the Hudson for fifteen years, I do most of my fishing in MA. I think the Hudson population is still OK, it was the healthiest group of spawning bass (over the Chesapeake and Delaware) for many years. MA has a new rule this year, only fish 28-36" legal and one per day limit since the overall population has grown too small. I wish they'd just let them alone in all east coast states for a few years so they have a chance to regenerate. It sure is a great sight to see a forty pounder class fish surface in the surf after a good fight. of course 20s and 30s are nice too, I have never landed a fifty in the surf, and only one or two from a boat, all in the ocean in MA.

I recall a great Italian restaurant in Croton on Hudson but never fished out of there.

This whole covid thing may be a great thing for some fisherys.

We would get 20's out of Kingston. Biggest striper I ever got was a 30 lb fish out of the Fort Loudon TN dam.

Crazy but the TVA impoundments have created a great fishery. When they let the water run through the dam big fish come up to feed on the detritus that is released. I got a 20lb blue cat on a top water rapala which I cast on the spill-way. There are 50 lb flathead cats as well.

I lived on the Croton reservoir in Katonah, NY - had a little jon boat and special watershed permit - got some 5lb largemouth, quite a few good size pickerele and plenty of yellow perch. I moved to FL to fish more and actually fish less these days!

Tight lines!

[cudgee]

Cudgee, try the uni-knot, easier than palomar and improved clinch knots and can be used to connect running line to shock leader like a blood knot. Works on mono or braid and never fails. I mated on a charter fishing boat for several seasons and the uni was all we used. Works fine for attaching line to spool also, guess that's why it is called a uni-knot, works for just about everything. Can even work well tying a mono leader to a hook and if done right comes out just like a snell. Sounds like you are using a revolving spool reel if you got backlashes (birds nests), that won't happen on a big spinning reel as TFL has. Braid only flies faster and further because it is thinner for the same pound test as mono, it will not fly faster or further than mono of the same diameter, in fact I have found it a little slower (same diameter) since mono is smoother. Especially if the braid has a lot of use on it and it flattens out some. Wind resistance is the problem naturally. Also as I mentioned previously it will groove stainless guides and tip tops fairly quickly, silicon carbide guides are the only good ones to use with braid. For sure using a revolving spool reel one won't usually get cut by the braid but when using spinning reels badly cut forefingers is a real problem. I use braid only, but on spinning casting reels always use a mono shocker to keep my finger safe. All my rods also have silicon carbide guides, I build them myself.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Well, I finally got to try out my new set-up. It went about like I thought it would - not a single bite! In addition to my own ineptitude, I had a lot of things going against me. My beach has been getting covered in seaweed for the last week. I thought it looked a little clearer today, so I gave it a try, but every cast brought back a ball of salad. Our water has turned very cold, it was 63 deg F at 7 AM. That's about 5 deg colder than normal. I made a few casts into the surf, then when I saw the seaweed was bad, I went over to the marina and fished off the dock. Nothing. There was little baitfish jumping (probably 3-4 inch smelt), and I thought that might mean there could be bigger predators around, but I got no bites.

But, that's OK, this was really just a training exercise to try out the new gear and re-learn how to do basic things like cast a spinning reel, see how far I can cast, work on casting accuracy, see how a Carolina rig feels bumping along the bottom, etc. I learned that my DIY PVC sand spike worked great, my fishing gloves worked well (no issues casting the braid), my feet quickly got cold in the surf and I think my leader was too long and kept getting wrapped around the sliding egg sinker on the main line. I lost one hook on a snag - it looks like the leader snapped where it went through the hook eye.

All-in-all: Fish: 1, TFL: 0

Here's a picture I took last week of the seaweed piling up against the jetty No way I was going to fish in that!

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Well, make that:

Ocean: 2 TFL: 0

I went out again this morning, and this time I thought I would try casting into what looked (spoiler alert) like a clear spot past the breakers that didn't have any seaweed and I would just let it sit there so the swim bait could do the work in the waves.

As soon as the line hit the water, I felt weight on the line - and it wasn't a fish. I spent the next ten minutes fighting a giant ball of seaweed that was growing with every wave. The good news is that my 20 lb braid was stronger than the 10+ lb seaweed ball and I managed to land it and drag it to the sand. I then spent the next 20+ minutes trying to tear the ball of seaweed apart and find my tackle. I finally got all the seaweed off and was left with a birds nest of line & tackle that I cut-off and threw in my bucket. I didn't lose anything except the plastic grub.

I then walked back home with my head hung in shame. On the entire walk back to the house I was thinking that maybe old computer geeks shouldn't pretend to be able to do something outdoorsy, like surf fishing...

[Old Folder]

TFL AND THE SEA

I know the feeling TFL .
My bait is usually always bigger than my catch.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

TFL AND THE SEA
download.jpg
I know the feeling TFL .
My bait is usually always bigger than my catch.

Hemingway would have been laughing his a$$ off at me...