My sharpening pet peeves

[eveled]

My apologies for the vague title. But I couldn’t think of a short title that explains this. Basically I hate recurves even subtle ones created by a bad choil area.

I think it’s caused by round corners on the stones at the factory. The trouble is these knives ruin the corners on good stones which ruins knives sharpened after that. If you are not careful.

It grows with each sharpening.

Each time you sharpen the curved part gets longer and longer. Or farther and farther from the ricasso.

Even worse it will lift the blade off the stone so it only contacts the belly leaving an inch of blade that doesn’t contact. And premature wear on the contact point.

I don’t necessarily like sharpening choils, but if they are very small they are ok.

From the factory

Small choil cut

After sharpening.

I cut the offending part out with a cut off wheel. Very careful to not go too deep. Then sharpen them normal on a diamond bench stone being sure to keep the corner pressed against the ricasso. Then I sharpen the belly to the point separately.

If done right after several sharpenings my little choil is gone and if carefully sharpened I won’t ever have to cut another one.

If the edge is not straight from the ricasso to the belly I am not happy. In kitchen knives I think this is caused by sharpening steels. Or generally bad sharpening. Ever seen a recurve wharncliffe?

Also I try to keep the edge parallel with the spine. So the basic blade shape stays the same for its entire life it just gets narrower. As opposed to becoming a stiletto shape. Like the 110 below. This is caused by the slicing motion while sharpening. The closer to the ricasso the less time the blade is in contact with the stone. Again keep the corner of the stone against the ricasso.

Loss of belly.

D436212C-E741-4984-9823-9EBDA708E69C.jpeg (14.39 KiB) Viewed 5973 times

For me it is about maintaining the integrity of the blade even as it’s sharpened down.

These things bother me much more that getting a shaving sharp mirror edge. Which seems to be what others care most about.

Thanks for listening.

[FRJ]

These details are important for the integrity and life of the blade.
Good post, eveled.

[geocash]

Very well explained. Thanks for teaching. Now all I have to do is learn.

[Mumbleypeg]

If you’re saying these came like that new, it sounds more like a manufacturing defect than a sharpening defect. Most factories do not use flat stones, they use sanding belts, or in some cases wheel/grind stones.

Ken

[Reverand]

Good post!

[eveled]

Here is another one with a slight factory recurve. Not sure if it’s intentional or not, but to my eye it shouldn’t be like that. This is a brand new Buck knife.

I’m going to “fix” this one by trying to take out most of the material from the choil to preserve as much of the belly as possible.

[eveled]

Now it’s straight. You can still see the factory grind on the edge bevel directly under the anvil logo. You can see how much of the choil was used up to get it like this, but I left the belly intact.

[EeDeCe]

Cleaning up my wife's SOG, I went to sharpen it and discovered the thumb studs (they're on both sides) are so long that they get in the way of sharpening the blade. I couldn't get them off without risking damaging them, so I just did the best I could starting at an odd sideways angle.
I figured this calls for a new knife. Got a Buck 726 on the way.

[eveled]

Arg! That would make me crazy.

I haven’t had issues with thumb studs yet. But I have a tri stone on a nice elevated stand. But the guards on fixed blades hit the housing.

[Rotten]

I have very strong negative feelings about thumb stud opening knives due to a lot of manufacturers badly thought out placement of them.

Regarding the original post my personal preference is for sharpening choils. But I sharpen for a few hunters who detest them because they can snag while dressing some game.

[eveled]

To stop snagging you can sharpen the choil like you would on a serated knife. I try to keep them very shallow to stop snagging. But if I slip and go too deep I sharpen them with a tapered diamond rod.

[Lansky1]

My biggest pet peeve is how absolutely awful factory grinds are on Case wharncliffe blades. The grinders don't take the time to try and maintain a straight leading edge - far more often than not, seems they always grind too deep and impart sort of an arc/curve in the last 1/2" or so near the tip. It takes alot of work to straighten the edge with a file and then start from scratch regrinding the entire edge profile - sometimes, it requires removing so much steel to get it back to straight that the blade is thinner than should ever be just to correct careless factory grinding. I just wish the grinders at Case took a little pride in their work (you do not see this kind of careless grinding coming out of GEC on their wharncliffe's - its a matter of taking pride in work over just grinding blades as fast as possible to fill the tray of finished knives ... I get that Case puts out probably a hundred knives to each knife GEC puts out, but there's a point where this kind of thing should be caught by quality control over at Case and this careless behavior CORRECTED). Here's what I'm talking about --->

[eveled]

That’s pathetic.

[Mumbleypeg]

I can understand that it bothers you. However I doubt that 99.999% of buyers care. Nor do I see how it affects function of the knife. I’m sure you’ll disagree. And that’s most certainly okay! I’m OCD on a lot of things (like weak walk-and-talk, or nail-breaking springs) but this isn’t one of them for me.

Ken

[Quick Steel]

John. the issue with Case may be carelessness. But it might be ignorance on the part of the grinders or the QC personnel, or even higher management. You might consider notifying Case, just as you did here, including photos. It would be very interesting to learn their response.

[eveled]

Mumbleypeg, it effects the function by making it hard to sharpen and subsequent blade loss and shortened life.

On the first sharpening you have to decide to fix it, or make it worse.

Straight edges on wharncliff, sheep’s foot, and coping blades are easy to sharpen. But are usually done wrong. If the factory can’t get it right, Joe Blow the ignorant owner will make it even worse.

[Mumbleypeg]

Mumbleypeg, it effects the function by making it hard to sharpen and subsequent blade loss and shortened life.

On the first sharpening you have to decide to fix it, or make it worse.

Straight edges on wharncliff and coping blades are easy to sharpen. But are usually done wrong. If the factory can’t get it right, Joe Blow the ignorant owner will make it even worse.

So it doesn’t affect the function of the knife’s cutting capability, just makes it more difficult to sharpen. Since I freehand sharpen, I never noticed any difficulty. I guess that’s why it makes no difference to me, but I can see how a sharpener system using clamps could be problematic. I also have very few wharncliffe blade knives. Mostly the blades with straight edges I have are sheepfoot.

BTW the sharpening operation at Case is “freehand” also, but they use belt sanders instead of stones.

Ken

[eveled]

I only sharpen freehand on a flat stone. How can that curved blade contact the whole stone at once? The only reason I said it is more difficult to sharpen is you have to remove the curved belly. 20 minutes as opposed to 20 seconds. Which is no big deal, but the blade loss is a big deal to me.

It still cuts, but it’s not how it’s supposed to be shaped. So it definitely effects its intended cutting ability.

I know that you are saying you don’t mind the curve, that it doesn’t matter to you that it’s curved. I get it. It’s my pet peeve, not everyone has the same affliction.

Do you think it’s supposed to be curved and it was done on purpose? Even though it doesn’t bother you, would you prefer it to be straight?

If you had that knife would it be straight after you sharpened it the first time?

[Mumbleypeg]

It would eventually be straight, or at least straighter. I can’t recall having sharpened a wharncliffe blade like those pictured (I’m just not especially a fan of wharncliffe blades), but I have sharpened many previously incorrectly sharpened sheepfoot blades of varying sizes.

In fact I have one now, on a 5347 I bought used from knifeaholic, which has a concave bow in the middle of the edge from improper sharpening by a previous owner. Also rather than the sharp “point” it should have, its tip is slightly rounded, again from improper sharpening. Both of those flaws were obvious in the pictures Steve posted in his AAPK store, else it would have been way to expensive for me to buy as an EDC. Its cutting ability isn’t affected in the least, and although the tip is not “pointed” it still serves my purposes. The spay was also incorrectly sharpened. As I use and sharpen it I am gradually restoring the correct shapes on both blades. But I’m not bothered enough over its flaws to sit down and reshape it in one sitting. I’ll likely get at least a year’s use out if it before its blades are restored to the proper shape.

Ken

[eveled]

Sounds like we are on the same page, you have more patience than I do. Enjoy the new knife.

[1967redrider]

My only sharpening pet peeve is when people use grinders to do so.

[OLDE CUTLER]

My only sharpening pet peeve is when people use grinders to do so.

Especially when the grinder has a 36 grit stone or belt.