Doubled liners

[Roger59]

Hello All, Just registered and this is my first post. I searched the forums briefly and if there is already a thread on this subject, please direct me there. I have recently acquired a Boker Tree Brand 9885 Stockman. I think it is from the 70’s. I have other iterations of this knife but this one has two brass liners doubled up on one side. The scale and bolsters on that side are thicker as well. None of my others have this anomaly. Is it common, uncommon, or should I suspect foul play? The over all width seems right and may have been done to compensate for variances elsewhere. I will welcome your opinions and observations. I have attached a photo.

[Steve Warden]

Hi Roger! Welcome.

Sorry I can't help, but I'm sure someone a lot smarter than I will be along soon.
Lots of knowledge 'round here!

[bighomer]

Like sarge said we got some people who knows the answer, but it ain't me. I will say that it quite prevalent in older knives so I don't think you've been took.

[ea42]

Roger is one of the liners (the one on the inside) cut out? This would be a cut center, or a liner that was generally used in the center of a knife such as a stockman or a scout knife. In your case it would have been used to give the blades a little more wiggle room so that they're not rubbing up against one another, or the liner, when they're closed.

Eric

[Steve Warden]

Roger is one of the liners (the one on the inside) cut out? This would be a cut center, or a liner that was generally used in the center of a knife such as a stockman or a scout knife. In your case it would have been used to give the blades a little more wiggle room so that they're not rubbing up against one another, or the liner, when they're closed.

Eric

There ya go.
I just took a look and I have several stockmans with double liners, both on the side where the sheeps foot and spay come together. Shown is a Camillus 179.

Camillus 179 stockman

Outer most liner is cut down

Actually it's the inner most liner cut down

A good day - I learned something!

[Steve Warden]

Moore Maker stockman

[Roger59]

Yes, the inner liner on the doubled side is cut out. It looks to be exactly like the center liner. Is that something that is determined as the knife is being made? Thanks for the quick responses.

[FRJ]

Welcome here Roger59

I think it is something that is determined in the design of the knife before production starts.

Can you show pictures of the entire knife?
That is always more helpful.

[CHNeal]

The double liner on the secondary side is to allow more room for the Spey and sheep’s foot with allows the blades to be krinked less and still avoid blade rub.
By cutting out the top portion of the added liner it’s added overall width to the well and leaving more room for the blades.

[ea42]

Yes, the inner liner on the doubled side is cut out. It looks to be exactly like the center liner. Is that something that is determined as the knife is being made? Thanks for the quick responses.

Roger, yes they're most always identical pieces. Why make another part when you've already got on that serves the purpose Knifemakers are so efficient!

I imagine on yours the spey blade is allowed to wander over to that side a bit so the sheepfoot doesn't hang over too far into the clip blade's territory. This method became more prevalent as cutleries started cutting back on or even eliminating the required swedging of the blades, which effectively thinned the blade backs or spines, giving them more room to squeeze in to that space.

Eric

[FRJ]

Eric, would that extra "liner" have been called a "scale" in earlier times?

[Roger59]

So it tuns out that one of my other 9885’s has this same double liner. I’m not sure why I had not noticed. On the outside it is not quite as apparent to these tired eyes. I have attached a picture of my Bokers - four 9885 stockmans and two 493 Barlows. The two knives in the center have the double liners. The two far left knives are identical. The one furthest left has been my daily carry for several years. The one beside it has never been carried or sharpened. Notice how much more attractive the carry knife has become. I think I have them lined up by age but I would appreciate any help you all can give narrowing down the dates. There are differences in shields, bolsters, nail pulls and swedges. The three pin Barlow is bone. Again feel free to make any observations or give any opinion. Thanks to everyone that set me straight on the double liner. I’m already smarter than when I started.

[Steve Warden]

So it tuns out that one of my other 9885’s has this same double liner. I’m not sure why I had not noticed. On the outside it is not quite as apparent to these tired eyes. I have attached a picture of my Bokers - four 9885 stockmans and two 493 Barlows. The two knives in the center have the double liners. The two far left knives are identical. The one furthest left has been my daily carry for several years. The one beside it has never been carried or sharpened. Notice how much more attractive the carry knife has become. I think I have them lined up by age but I would appreciate any help you all can give narrowing down the dates. There are differences in shields, bolsters, nail pulls and swedges. The three pin Barlow is bone. Again feel free to make any observations or give any opinion. Thanks to everyone that set me straight on the double liner. I’m already smarter than when I started.

A very impressive collection, Roger.
Niiiiiiiice!

[Reverand]

Welcome to AAPK!
You do have a nice Boker collection! I accumulate knives rather than collect, but I do love old Bokers. I have one small Congress pattern "Sunday knife" that I still love to carry to church, even though it is about worn out. My Father-in-Law gave it to me a few years before he died.

[Mumbleypeg]

Welcome here Roger! Thanks for showing your Bökers. A couple of the members here, rangerbluedog and mason, have written a book about Böker. https://www.thebokerbook.com/ You might be interested.

Ken

[Papa Bones]

So it tuns out that one of my other 9885’s has this same double liner. I’m not sure why I had not noticed. On the outside it is not quite as apparent to these tired eyes. I have attached a picture of my Bokers - four 9885 stockmans and two 493 Barlows. The two knives in the center have the double liners. The two far left knives are identical. The one furthest left has been my daily carry for several years. The one beside it has never been carried or sharpened. Notice how much more attractive the carry knife has become. I think I have them lined up by age but I would appreciate any help you all can give narrowing down the dates. There are differences in shields, bolsters, nail pulls and swedges. The three pin Barlow is bone. Again feel free to make any observations or give any opinion. Thanks to everyone that set me straight on the double liner. I’m already smarter than when I started.

Welcome to AAPK Roger. Very nice lineup of Bokers.

Very nice thread guys. Enjoyed the read!

[Roger59]

Thanks for the compliments on my Bokers and thanks Ken for the link to the Boker Book. I apologize for going off topic. Now I just need to figure out how to put the umlat over the “0.”

[EeDeCe]

None of my Bokers have it, but my stockman is a new one.
I did find this on my Ka-Bar stockman and on my Ulster boy scout knife.
Comparing it to others, it just seems like a way of fitting multiple blades in with just 2 springs, which seems a better solution than going with thinner and/or bent blades to make them fit.
Ideally, I like my Buck 301 that just goes ahead with 3 springs. Thick steel, lots of room, no need to get creative and makes for a nice heft in hand.

Here are the Ka-Bar and Ulster if interested:

[dlr110]

I'm saying that is not unusually, because I have several stockman that are the same way.
Robeson, Keen Kutter, Kline and Western are some that I have.

[Mumbleypeg]

Now I just need to figure out how to put the umlat over the “0.”

Might depend on your device, but on iPad or Android phone simply hold your finger down on the vowel as you’re typing it. As you’re holding it, a little box will appear above it with options for other versions of the vowel, one of which will be the umlaut version. Now, without lifting your finger from the virtual keyboard just slide your finger up to the version you want, keeping your finger there until you lift it off the keyboard. As soon as you remove your finger the version you have chosen, with umlaut (or whatever version you chose) will appear in the text you’re typing. ä ë ï ö ü ÿ

Ken

[ea42]

Eric, would that extra "liner" have been called a "scale" in earlier times?

Joe,

Yes it would have, and actually still is in many of the factories. I know Great Eastern does and we did too. You've got the bolster scales, which have a few extra bolster holes for Tommy on pins (the scales with the bolsters attached are still called bolster scales), center scales which would be the same as the bolster scales but without the Tommy on pin holes, used in the center of a two blade jack for instance, cut center scales which have the center cut out for cross blade access such as stockman or scout knives as well as being used as a spacer like the OP's knife. Last but not least (I think) you have the tapered center scale which is what you find in the whittler type knives where the main blade tang is nearly double the width of the two opposing knives. Now most folks refer to them as liners and the handles as scales. This used to confuse the heck out of the guys at the shop when a customer called asking what kind of scales were on the knife. The first answer was always stainless or brass lol.

Eric

[Roger59]

Ö Thanks Ken. Now I’ll work on pronouncing it..,

Then I’ll work on my knife photography. EeDeCe, your photos belong in a gallery.

[Ripster]

Welcome Roger,great group of people here,U are in good hands .Nice Bokers,my best friend gave me his Boker 494 Barlow ,a few weeks ago,which he's had for many years,now the Boker bug has hit and the Search is on. Again ,welcome,and enjoy

[FRJ]

Joe, Yes it would have,
Eric

Thank you, Eric.
I remember reading about such things some time ago and liked the early nomenclature.
Although using such terms can be confusing to folks who haven't read something similar.
I think it's a take off of the admiring public, back in the day, assigning names to knife parts.
Today, if we take the time, we can learn these simple facts but in earlier times there was no such rapid exchange of knowledge
and regional and cultural nick names tended to remain fast.

Which is one reason the Largemouth Bass is not called a Sunfish as it properly should be.

It's all great stuff. Thank you for responding.

[EeDeCe]

Ö Thanks Ken. Now I’ll work on pronouncing it..,

Then I’ll work on my knife photography. EeDeCe, your photos belong in a gallery.

Thanks! Smart phone, dumb user, but it works.