Guns & Gun Related Stuff

[Mumbleypeg]

Can't imagine the logic that is behind the "anti 2nd Amendment movements"? What is the motivation?
Treefarmer

The same objective as health care, climate change, etc. At the root of them all is:

C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

Ken

[edge213]

Can't imagine the logic that is behind the "anti 2nd Amendment movements"? What is the motivation?
Treefarmer

The same objective as health care, climate change, etc. At the root of them all is:

C-O-N-T-R-O-L.
Ken. You hit the nail on the head!

Ken

[jerryd6818]

Getting some kind of award, the comedian Dave Chapelle said that "the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech and lawful assembly) is first because it is so important. And the 2nd Amendment is just in case the 1st amendment doesn't work out." Funny but also an acute observation.

And in case the first two fail, there's the third.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

[dlr110]

May I offer this up on the subject at hand?
Gun Control, a page from a book I'm working on.

"The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

How relevant is this today? In school we learned that our revolution started because British rulers and governors were imposing unfair taxes or tariffs on the colonies without input or representation by the people. This became known as “No taxation without representation,” and was a phrase used by Boston Minister Jonathan Mayhew during a sermon in 1750, twenty-six years before the American Revolution began.

Also, your homes or property could be seized by the British government without due process of law for taxes or for quartering British troops and yes, government confiscation of town armories and personal weapons, GUN CONTROL. Our founding fathers and the colonists were very aware of gun control issues and the importance of being able to protect oneself as well as the colonies thus the 2nd amendment.

The following is an excerpt from an article by Dave Kopel, an Associate Policy Analyst with the Cato Institute and adjunct Professor of Advanced Constitutional Law at the University of Denver’s Sturm College of Law. The author of 14 books, Kopel writes on constitutional law, criminal justice, civil rights, firearms policy, and the media. His briefs have been cited by U.S. Supreme Court Justices and his research has been cited by state Supreme Courts, federal courts, and in over 600 law review articles.

[On July 6th 1775, the Continental Congress adopted the “Declaration of Causes and Necessity of Taking Up Arms,” written by Thomas Jefferson and Pennsylvania lawyer John Dickinson. Among the grievances listed in the document were General Gage’s efforts to disarm the people of Lexington, Concord, and Boston. One year later, July 4th 1776, the colonies adopt the “Declaration of Independence.” Included in the Declaration were the tyrannical acts of King George III that listed the king’s methods for carrying out gun control in the colonies.

The British always remembered that without full control of the population and their weapons, they could never control America and in 1777 Colonial Undersecretary William Knox drafted a plan entitled “What Is Fit to Be Done with America?” To ensure that there would be no future rebellions by the colonists, “the Militia Laws should be repealed and none suffered to be re-enacted, & the Arms of all the People should be taken away, nor should any Foundry or manufacturer of Arms, Gunpowder, or Warlike Stores, be ever suffered in America, nor should any Gunpowder, Lead, Arms or Ordnance be imported into it without License....” end]

To the Americans of 1776 the idea that the right to keep and bear arms was a “collective right” and not an “individual right” would have seemed incomprehensible. Americans owned weapons individually in their homes and collectively, in their town armories and powder houses. Depending on where you lived they were needed not only for protection, but most importantly for killing wild game for food. The colonists were not going to allow the British to confiscate their individual or their collective arms, and when they tried to do both, a Revolution began.

Americans used their individual and their collective arms to fight against the confiscation of all arms. Americans fought and died to provide themselves a new government that would never perpetrate the tyrannical policies and abuses that had provoked the revolution. Take a good look at other countries and tell me if the people's “Right to bear Arms” is relevant today.

You bet your life, and your freedom it is!

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

What makes me crazy is that more gun control laws will NOT stop violent crime. Keeping law-abiding citizens from being conscientious gun-owners does nothing to stop crazies and criminals from using the millions of weapons that are already out in the world. That genie is out of the bottle. You can't go back to 9th century China and prevent the invention of gunpowder. Instead of trying to do the impossible, anti-gunners should be telling their governments to enforce criminal laws and fight poverty & other drivers of crime. Stop the root cause of the violence, not the tools.

[Quick Steel]

David R, I think you have done an excellent job of marshaling your sources and laid out the case in a clear and persuasive manner. Fine work.

[WillyCamaro]

David R, I think you have done an excellent job of marshaling your sources and laid out the case in a clear and persuasive manner. Fine work.

I second that Gary, mighty fine job you are doing on your book David .
Willy

[WillyCamaro]

Can't imagine the logic that is behind the "anti 2nd Amendment movements"? What is the motivation?
Treefarmer

The same objective as health care, climate change, etc. At the root of them all is:

C-O-N-T-R-O-L.

Ken

You hit the nail on the head Ken, things never change, Even after 250 years . Just look at what the Bolsheviks did to Russia/The World after they seized power in 1917.

[Byrd]

dlr110, excellent observations and great history. Control is the most obvious reason why the left want our guns. Look at what's happening in Virginia now. To those of us with some age on us that grew up with guns as part of life it makes no sense, but to the millennials coming of age and having been fed the propaganda it makes perfect sense. I personally think we can see the handwriting on the wall and it's scary. In the gun community there is division as well. Before I retired I worked with guys that were avid hunters, but not "gun guys". They didn't care about "gun control" because it wouldn't affect their hunting guns. They didn't care about black rifles or handguns and wouldn't discuss the possibility of their deer rifles of shotguns being confiscated. None were NRA members. None looked at the possession of guns as a freedom and were apathetic about it. That in itself is a part of the problem coupled with the crazy mass shooters and the push by the left for control/confiscation. Last week a high school student here was caught at school with a Glock 19. The school board formulated a statement calling for more gun control...not knowing that it was already illegal for that kid to be in possession of a handgun. That is a recipe for disaster!

[Mumbleypeg]

dlr110, excellent observations and great history. Control is the most obvious reason why the left want our guns. Look at what's happening in Virginia now. To those of us with some age on us that grew up with guns as part of life it makes no sense, but to the millennials coming of age and having been fed the propaganda it makes perfect sense. I personally think we can see the handwriting on the wall and it's scary. In the gun community there is division as well. Before I retired I worked with guys that were avid hunters, but not "gun guys". They didn't care about "gun control" because it wouldn't affect their hunting guns. They didn't care about black rifles or handguns and wouldn't discuss the possibility of their deer rifles of shotguns being confiscated. None were NRA members. None looked at the possession of guns as a freedom and were apathetic about it. That in itself is a part of the problem coupled with the crazy mass shooters and the push by the left for control/confiscation. Last week a high school student here was caught at school with a Glock 19. The school board formulated a statement calling for more gun control...not knowing that it was already illegal for that kid to be in possession of a handgun. That is a recipe for disaster!

I am of course not in your area so you know more about that local situation. But I’d be surprised if the local school board members were not aware it was already illegal for the kid to be in possession of a handgun, especially on school property. Too many times elected officials, local, state and national, feel pressured by the media and the anti-gun lobby (in most cases they’re the same) to “do something”. So they do the easy thing - pass more laws. None of which have any real impact on the problem. And we the law-abiding people lose more liberty.

I understand your comments about the generational shift in attitudes and the hunters not caring because they think the issue doesn’t affect them. Which is naive at best. I have a copy of The Art of Shooting by Charles Edward Chappel, published in 1950. It was in my late father’s library. The last chapter of the book is titled “The truth about firearms registration laws”. The issues discussed therein are largely the same as are being discussed today. But the big difference is what kind of fire arms are being demonized by the anti-gun element. In 1950 there were no AR-15 so-called “assault weapons”. Few or no “high capacity magazines”. The anti-gunner’s arguments outlined are near-identical to those we hear today. But what were they after at the time? Shotguns, rifles, and other common privately owned firearms of the day - in 1950!

The in-animate objects (fire arms) being targeted have evolved with technology. The anti-second amendment advocates goal is the same today as it was 70 years ago - control.

Ken

[Colonel26]

Getting some kind of award, the comedian Dave Chapelle said that "the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech and lawful assembly) is first because it is so important. And the 2nd Amendment is just in case the 1st amendment doesn't work out." Funny but also an acute observation.

And in case the first two fail, there's the third.

"No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

And you can bet your sweet pattutie that if the 2nd falls the 1st and 3rd will soon follow suit!

Good work David!

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

... Too many times elected officials, local, state and national, feel pressured by the media and the anti-gun lobby (in most cases they’re the same) to “do something”....

This is EXACTLY right. I have this argument with my wife all the time. Every time there is an "active shooter" event, she starts railing about "doing something" - but she doesn't want to hear that the proposed gun control laws would not have prevented that shooting. Makes me crazy!

[WillyCamaro]

Here's my Sig Spartan 1911 .177 bb pistol. I got major gun fever last night, so pulled her out, loaded up, and blew a few mags out, off the back deck into the surrounding snow banks. Hey, can I help it that I love shooting, even in the dead of freezing winter . Least I blew off some steam, and sweeped the snow off the deck, at least I can say I worked for my shooting. Also pulled out my cz and blew through a few mags.
What I can say from my first shooting session, and comparing it to my cz (i'll cross compare them with my Glock 19 when she warms up again), is that it's a ton of fun and accurate!
Trigger pull is excellent IMHO, they say around 5 1/2 lbs pull, I believe it. Nice, short, crisp single action, just like a proper 1911. Blowback is fully functional, engages the hammer each time, and lock back after final shot. Safety is superb, as is overall balance/feel. A proper custom target quality 1911, just like the full size Sig 1911's. Build quality is excellent, made in Japan. All-metal construction, with high quality polymer grips. Loading co2 is a breeze, just pull down the back cam (doubles as back side of grip), insert co2, then forcefully push the cam closed. Takes a little effort at first, but perty easy to get hang of it.
I put about 30 rounds through it so far, getting good groupings in the snow bank. Shooting freehand mind ya, got all rounds in a 6" circle, and managed to stack quite a few in the same holes. Can't wait to see what she'll do during proper range time, I believe i'll be stacking them all day @ 7yds 6"-12" targets.
Cheap Styrofoam plates make excellent targets for this purpose, nailed onto standing pallets. Probably i'll take it out to 10 yards to give it a more through testing. If I can land most of the rounds (with only a few flyers), within 1' target, then she's awesome. But i'm getting way ahead of myself, first the weather has to smarten up . Well, winter on the prairies, what can you do . Anyway, stories much the same for my cz, just the slide is not cut out, and doesn't lock back. Other then that they are both superb replicas/target trainers.
Willy

[Quick Steel]

Interesting reviews and very nice photos.

[tongueriver]

Air pistols are ok in Canada but "powder" traditional handguns are not?

[WillyCamaro]

Air pistols are ok in Canada but "powder" traditional handguns are not?

Yup, about right …. .

[WillyCamaro]

Interesting reviews and very nice photos.

Thank you Gary, I try to do my best .

[tongueriver]

I never knew a thing about that genre of gunnery. Very cool! What would be appropriate for me to shoot mice-sized targets at up to ten yards? Can these guns be 'dumbed down' for firing inside the house so that the wife's stuff doesn't get perforated? That CZ is particularly interesting because I have a Shadow II, which I LOVE.

[WillyCamaro]

Cool man .
From what I've read so far, and watched on YouTube, i'm perty sure it's 100% possible to knock off small targets like that, at those ranges, repetitively. I would probably be leaning toward pellet pistols, bb's are pushing it at 10yds, especially for such small targets. But if you have a high end gun (rifled steel barrel is always a bonus), and practice a ton (just like any pistol shooting), you can totally do it. I wouldn't varmint at those ranges with bb's, pellets are the way to go, especially with high fps (400 and over is my comfort zone).
You'd be surprise at many of these gun, they push lead out with quite surprising power, I know I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end, that's for sure! To tell you what exact gun to buy, is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack, just like there full counter parts. Every gun out there is different, they all have there strengths and weaknesses. You basically have to break down what you are wanting, and go from there. I'm a newbie at the whole field of air gunning too, I just watch lots of youtube videos, and read tons, basically a few months of research/hunting ahead of you.
Basically, the best way to start diving into things, is to go onto YouTube and watch vids from good channels. One of the best, IMHO is Replica Air Guns, website and channel. He's very through in his reviews, dives deep into each gun. And the video quality is excellent, which is a bonus for sure.
https://www.replicaairguns.us/
https://www.replicaairguns.ca/
He was probably one of the first channels dedicated to air guns out there. Now there lots, just have to know where to look.
Airsoft is another genre that a person could look into, but that's a whole nether ball of wax.
You mean dumbed down as in lowering the fps, i'm not sure about that.
Shooting in the house is one aspect of them I STRONGLY advise against. If you have a range in the basement, totally fine. But fooling around, don't ever do it man! I could tell you a horror story about how I learned, that it's plain dumb. You got to remember, these ain't toys, they are real arms, that need to be treated with respect, just like there full size counterparts. Why I say that is because (especially bb's), like to ricochet. You can build a pellet trap, but that works only for pellets, and I still wouldn't risk it around people/valuables. Companies are working to fix that issue, coating bb's is one solution, helps, but doesn't solve it. Another is to produce, what people call frangible bb's (Dust Devils is one product name). Basically when they hit something solid, they fracture into a million tiny pieces. But I bet your wife wouldn't want all that junk flying around the house. Even with those, I still wouldn't take chances in your living areas.
Basically I like to think of them as the scaled-down counterparts of there big brother, with there lead being propelled by a different source, either compressed air, or air powered by a powerful spring.
Modern day air guns are not like there ancestors of yesteryear, many are powerful enough to take on any game on this planet. You want a eye opener, take a look at the Umarex Hammer. She's a .50 beast of a rifle, one took a cape buffalo at 25 yards. Hit the floor seconds after being shot, power for ya!
But i'm getting way off track here, me for ya, I could talk about this stuff all day .

Anyway, back to the question at hand, CZ's are a great place to start. They have contracted out to ASG, to design and produce exact copies of there full size brethern. Even better, they just released 2 new shadow II models, which look sweet. Only in airsoft at the moment, pretty sure bb/pellet versions are on the way. There made in Japan too boot, top quality craftmanship throughout. They due have the full line of 75's, probably some of the best air pistols on the market at the moment, IMHO. They do have 2 versions of the sp-01 shadow 1, if your interested in those. I'll post the link to there us site so you'all can take a look.
https://actionsportgames.us/en-us/produ ... 7%2F4.5+mm
Hope that helps tongueriver, I got bunch more info to share, but latter, she's getting late here (I've done enough binging for awhile ).
Willy
P.S. Officially my 1420th post since joining last Jan the 9th. Boy time flies, and I talk a lot, that's for sure! Maybe JerryD is rubbing off on me, which isn't very helpful because I talk to much anyway .

[jerryd6818]

I talk a lot, that's for sure! Maybe JerryD is rubbing off on me, which isn't very helpful because I talk to much anyway .

I freely admit that I am a jabbermeister.

[tongueriver]

Wow, WC! Thanks so much for providing an extensive informational launch pad!

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Here's a pretty good article that compares ballistics of 22 rimfire & airguns: https://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics

There are youtube videos of airgun reviews that show guys with dedicated airgun ranges in their basements, garages or backyard workshops. It can be done, but it's not just a matter of setting up in the hallway between your living room and your master bedroom.

[tongueriver]

Here's a pretty good article that compares ballistics of 22 rimfire & airguns: https://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics

There are youtube videos of airgun reviews that show guys with dedicated airgun ranges in their basements, garages or backyard workshops. It can be done, but it's not just a matter of setting up in the hallway between your living room and your master bedroom.

Yes, it needs to be carefully done, like all firearm behavior. I had a heavy plate steel trap in my basement years ago, and it would handle .44 Magnum jacketed bullets, but only if you were willing to neglect to wear shooting glasses or goggles and do the 'blinded forever' thing. I fired one shot with .44s and decided that was not my best plan. .22 rimfires all day, no problem if one doesn't mind the lead dust going into your body... forever. An indoor range with all the proper setup is the best idea; I am lucky to be a member of a really fine one. By the way, my cousin lost an eye to a ordinary 'Daisy' in about 1955.

[WillyCamaro]

I talk a lot, that's for sure! Maybe JerryD is rubbing off on me, which isn't very helpful because I talk to much anyway .

I freely admit that I am a jabbermeister.

I bow to you, oh master wordsmith .

[WillyCamaro]

Here's a pretty good article that compares ballistics of 22 rimfire & airguns: https://www.crosman.com/get-hunting/airgun-ballistics

There are youtube videos of airgun reviews that show guys with dedicated airgun ranges in their basements, garages or backyard workshops. It can be done, but it's not just a matter of setting up in the hallway between your living room and your master bedroom.

Great article TFL, thanks for sharing the link . I needed to add that to my bookmarks .