Unscrupulous or not?

[XX Case XX]

I'm always seeing older Case "XX" era knives for sale on eBay. The sellers usually list a decade of when the knife was made. However, we all know that Case XX era knives could have been made between 3 different decades.

Case in point: (No pun intended). As a general rule, a Case XX era knife was made between 1940-1964. However, I see a lot of eBay listings that say the knife is a "1940's" knife. True, but it's only a half truth as it could have been made in the 40's, 50's or 60's. That's a 24 year gap.

The way I read the listing, the seller is saying it's absolutely a 1940's knife. That's not entirely true. It could be, but maybe not.

It could have been made in 1948, but it also could have been made in 1963. So who knows for sure? I can't tell.

I think listing an XX era Case as strictly a "1940's" is wrong. Others may disagree. Unscrupulous or not?

___________
Mike

[dlr110]

I don't disagree, I think we should be as accurate as possible. If I'm not certain I will say I don't know or "I believe a knife was made prior to or after (date)" with my reason why. My best statement is not to say anything at all about the date if I'm not 100% sure. JMHO

[stockman]

XX Green Bone was probably mid 50's and before.

Harold

[Railsplitter]

I read somewhere that Case started stamping pattern numbers on the tangs in 1949. If that's true then a knife with the XX era stamp and no pattern number would in fact, be made in the 1940's.

Maybe some of the sellers have read the same thing but I'm sure there are plenty that haven't and list all of their XX era knives as 1940's models.

[herbva]

First, to answer the question posed, my feeling is: unscrupulous - no; misleading - yes.
Second, I have read various theories and opinions about 1949 being the first year that Case started stamping pattern numbers on all Case folding knives. While there is apparently no absolute, concrete proof for this belief, I think it is probably true. With that said, I have seen Case XX knives that appear to have had the pattern stamp removed or caused to have been worn off just to claim 1940's provenance. That is unscrupulous. Just my 2 cents.

Herb

[stockman]

I have a XX 4 bld 47 with tested shield and a pattern number.

Harold

[rea1eye]

I think for some sellers, it might be unscrupulous- trying to get more money by suggesting
a older knife. It seems like suggestions that the knife if from the 40's is more common
when the knife has seem some use. Perhaps the seller is thinking the knife has to be
from the 40's because of it's appearance.

Bob

[Mumbleypeg]

There are some clues that can indicate a knife is from the early, or later, XX period. The type of shield being the most prominent. Bone color and jigging pattern can sometimes help. But IMHO a XX knife is a XX knife. Condition is more important from a value perspective than speculation about whether the knife was made in the 1940s or 1960s. Factors like greenbone, stag, etc notwithstanding, I wouldn’t pay one penny more for a knife purported to be from the 1940s (JMO the XX period began after WWII, not 1940.)

Some sellers will make up whatever BS story they think might get them another dollar. Caveat emptor!

Ken

[btrwtr]

Many Case XX era knives can be narrowed down to a narrower time frame depending on pattern, shield, handles etc. That said I do think many of the knives listed on eBay, Case as well a all other brands, are described with a good degree of wishful thinking.

[btrwtr]

As far as the 1949 date for Case XX era knives with pattern number stamps is concerned I have a very hard time believing that. XX era knives without pattern stamps are an exception and in my experience they are few and far between. If you consider that 1949 would represent 9 years of what is loosely excepted of the 26 years of XX era knives I would expect to see about 1/3 of all XX era knives without pattern number stamps. With the majority of XX rough black knives with pattern number stamps I think that pretty much rules out 1949.

[zzyzzogeton]

There are some clues that can indicate a knife is from the early, or later, XX period. The type of shield being the most prominent. Bone color and jigging pattern can sometimes help. But IMHO a XX knife is a XX knife. Condition is more important from a value perspective than speculation about whether the knife was made in the 1940s or 1960s. Factors like greenbone, stag, etc notwithstanding, I wouldn’t pay one penny more for a knife purported to be from the 1940s (JMO the XX period began after WWII, not 1940.)

Some sellers will make up whatever BS story they think might get them another dollar. Caveat emptor!

Ken

Is this in reference to folding knives only? Other than the WW2 fixed blades, I don't have a clue about Case knives.

I know the Case options for the M592 Back Pad Kits for the AAC and USN, which were the Collins #18 clone (1942-1943), the real and only V44, a fixed blade machete (1944) and the 1945 - 1950s folding machetes, were stamped CASE XX.

[TripleF]

One things' for sure.....I'll never know my Case knives.

[Mumbleypeg]

There are some clues that can indicate a knife is from the early, or later, XX period. The type of shield being the most prominent. Bone color and jigging pattern can sometimes help. But IMHO a XX knife is a XX knife. Condition is more important from a value perspective than speculation about whether the knife was made in the 1940s or 1960s. Factors like greenbone, stag, etc notwithstanding, I wouldn’t pay one penny more for a knife purported to be from the 1940s (JMO the XX period began after WWII, not 1940.)

Some sellers will make up whatever BS story they think might get them another dollar. Caveat emptor!

Ken

Is this in reference to folding knives only? Other than the WW2 fixed blades, I don't have a clue about Case knives.

I know the Case options for the M592 Back Pad Kits for the AAC and USN, which were the Collins #18 clone (1942-1943), the real and only V44, a fixed blade machete (1944) and the 1945 - 1950s folding machetes, were stamped CASE XX.

My comment pertains to pocket knives only - not fixed blades. Up until the XX U.S.A. era (1965) or thereabouts, Case fixed blade knives used a different stamping than pocket knives. The 1965 change adding U.S.A. to the stamp on both pocket and fixed blade cutlery was mandated by U.S. customs “country of origin” laws.

My opinion regarding the dates of pocket knife stamps comes from the following observations:

1. Case executive Bob Farquharson was reportedly informed by collector/author Dewey Ferguson that collectors were interested in knowing the date when their knives were manufactured. Lacking any written evidence, Farquharson, himself a Case employee since the early 1950s, reportedly asked long-time Case employee Mary Petro to advise when the various tang stamps were used. Mary provided her best estimates. Farquharson gave those dates to Ferguson, who published them. The dates of 1920-1940 for Case Tested XX” and 1940-1964 for “Case XX” supposedly came from that source. Whether the story is true or not I do not know. What is apparently true is that Case themselves has no archived documentation. And shortly thereafter in 1970 Case instituted the “dots” method of dating their knives.

2. More compelling is that I have seen, and have in my possession pocket knives made during WWII for the U.S. armed forces, which are stamped “Tested XX”. Not possible if you adhere to the 1920-1940 theory.

I find it interesting that references like Sargent’s show the 1920-1940 date in the “Case history” section, yet have photographs of knives clearly stamped Tested XX with captions like “Pattern made for the U.S. Navy during WWII”.

Ken