Guns & Gun Related Stuff

[cudgee]

I know I'll probably get some flak for even thinking this but I could see using that .223 from a shooting house as a deer rifle. I remember when I was a kid (a long time ago), a .243 was considered too light for any deer, it was a varmint cartridge. With proper bullet and common sense I would welcome the chance to use a bolt action .223 such as the one Scale Military has obtained. I'd rather have a right handed one but I believe I could figure out how to shoot a lefty.
To support my attitude about the .223, I would offer this article if anyone is interested: https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... -for-deer/
I used to shoot a 30/06, been shooting a .243 now for probably more than 25 years and would welcome the lighter recoil of a .223 for my old arthritic shoulders.
Treefarmer

There’s a young man at church, former Marine, who has taken a few deer with his AR-15. 223 of course. Comes down to shot placement, bullet type and knowing your limitations.

Hereabouts over the years there have been LOTS of deer taken with a 22lr. But that involves a good light and a dark night, which I am not advocating. Just agreeing with you that the right bullet in the right spot equals a dead deer.

Me, I need all the help I can get. So I use a 35 Remington. Lol

Just a question, you say that lots of deer have been taken with a 22lr, is that a .22 long rifle. The only reason i ask apart from curiosity, is it is illegal to hunt deer over here with a small calibre such as a .22.

[steve99f]

It varies by state here cudgee. Not sure but I think here in Pennsylvania the minimum caliber is 0.24. I prefer a larger hole in the barrel.

I've heard it said that the 22 LR is a poacher's tool. Haven't seen it myself.

[treefarmer]

cudgee,
Let me respond or add to what Colonel26 mentioned concerning .22s. Back in the day (50 years ago) I used to know some fellers that hunted with .22 magnums and some even with the 22LR. It is illegal in the state of Florida to deer hunt with a rim fire cartridge. It didn't bother these guys, they were market hunting and if they were caught the rifle wouldn't be much of an issue as the out of season and trespassing charges. When they hunted at night they joked about taking their one-eyed-dog along with them. Along about this time Remington came out with a new round, a 5mm rim fire that was supposed to rival the .22WMR. It was fine little round but never caught on, only lasted a few years if my memory still serves me right. I always though the unpopularity was because of the Winchester model 61 pump was the tool of choice and the 5mm was only offered in bolt action. The 5mm ammo is still available but at about 60 cents a pop that don't make much sense.
Personally I want a round that will do the job, that is legal and will not punish my old shoulders. It is then up to me to make an ethical, clean kill.
Treefarmer

[Colonel26]

I know I'll probably get some flak for even thinking this but I could see using that .223 from a shooting house as a deer rifle. I remember when I was a kid (a long time ago), a .243 was considered too light for any deer, it was a varmint cartridge. With proper bullet and common sense I would welcome the chance to use a bolt action .223 such as the one Scale Military has obtained. I'd rather have a right handed one but I believe I could figure out how to shoot a lefty.
To support my attitude about the .223, I would offer this article if anyone is interested: https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... -for-deer/
I used to shoot a 30/06, been shooting a .243 now for probably more than 25 years and would welcome the lighter recoil of a .223 for my old arthritic shoulders.
Treefarmer

There’s a young man at church, former Marine, who has taken a few deer with his AR-15. 223 of course. Comes down to shot placement, bullet type and knowing your limitations.

Hereabouts over the years there have been LOTS of deer taken with a 22lr. But that involves a good light and a dark night, which I am not advocating. Just agreeing with you that the right bullet in the right spot equals a dead deer.

Me, I need all the help I can get. So I use a 35 Remington. Lol

Just a question, you say that lots of deer have been taken with a 22lr, is that a .22 long rifle. The only reason i ask apart from curiosity, is it is illegal to hunt deer over here with a small calibre such as a .22.

Yes, a 22 long rifle. As TF said it was the poachers tool. They would go out at night and blind the deer with a bright light and shoot it with the 22lr. I’ve also heard stories about when bow season became a reality years ago that a lot of those old guys would shoot the deer with the 22 and then stick and arrow in the hole in case they were checked.

Please don’t think I am advocating this, I am not. I’m just saying that plenty of deer have been taken with much less than a 223, which under the right circumstances and distance is adequate to take a deer, especially at the short ranges we shoot deer here in my area. Personally, I like bigger holes though.

[carrmillus]

I know I'll probably get some flak for even thinking this but I could see using that .223 from a shooting house as a deer rifle. I remember when I was a kid (a long time ago), a .243 was considered too light for any deer, it was a varmint cartridge. With proper bullet and common sense I would welcome the chance to use a bolt action .223 such as the one Scale Military has obtained. I'd rather have a right handed one but I believe I could figure out how to shoot a lefty.
To support my attitude about the .223, I would offer this article if anyone is interested: https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... -for-deer/
I used to shoot a 30/06, been shooting a .243 now for probably more than 25 years and would welcome the lighter recoil of a .223 for my old arthritic shoulders.
Treefarmer

...treefarmer, don't buy a COLT LIGHTNING-.44-40!!!!............. ...........

[treefarmer]

Tommy, I had to look that one up, the Colt Lightening 44-40. You ain't got to worry about me buying one of those puppies. If I could afford one of them I'd go ahead and buy your T-Bird too.
Treefarmer

[cudgee]

"steve99f, treefarmer, colonel26" Thanks to all of you for your concise and excellent replies, this has clarified things for me. I the state where i live, Victoria, the legal calibre's , for small deer, hog, chital and fellow is .243 winchester with 80 grain projectile, and larger deer, sambar, rusta, red it is .270 winchester with 130 grain projectile. As with over there, every state differs, so most use as minimum the .270, this is legal in all states.

[Camillus]

Ray,
I’ve had very good luck with my Sig Sauer 1911-22 pistol and it’s fun to shoot being the same as my other 1911’s in weight and size.
Thank for sharing and happy shooting.

Camillus

[Paladin]

Ray,
I’ve had very good luck with my Sig Sauer 1911-22 pistol and it’s fun to shoot being the same as my other 1911’s in weight and size.
Thank for sharing and happy shooting.

Camillus

I am really looking forward to getting out in the country with it. Just keep having trouble getting the time.

Ray

[zp4ja]

There’s a young man at church, former Marine, who has taken a few deer with his AR-15. 223 of course. Comes down to shot placement, bullet type and knowing your limitations.

Hereabouts over the years there have been LOTS of deer taken with a 22lr. But that involves a good light and a dark night, which I am not advocating. Just agreeing with you that the right bullet in the right spot equals a dead deer.

Me, I need all the help I can get. So I use a 35 Remington. Lol

Just a question, you say that lots of deer have been taken with a 22lr, is that a .22 long rifle. The only reason i ask apart from curiosity, is it is illegal to hunt deer over here with a small calibre such as a .22.

Yes, a 22 long rifle. As TF said it was the poachers tool. They would go out at night and blind the deer with a bright light and shoot it with the 22lr. I’ve also heard stories about when bow season became a reality years ago that a lot of those old guys would shoot the deer with the 22 and then stick and arrow in the hole in case they were checked.

Please don’t think I am advocating this, I am not. I’m just saying that plenty of deer have been taken with much less than a 223, which under the right circumstances and distance is adequate to take a deer, especially at the short ranges we shoot deer here in my area. Personally, I like bigger holes though.

To chime in on this, I agree that shot placement is key regardless of caliber but obviously especially when using lighter calibers and loads, depending on game size. Where I live in the Nevada desert, a 100 to 150 yard shot would be considered "close range" as we are not in woods but open desert and tough mountains to hunt. Average shot likely 300 yards I imagine with some shots out to 600 plus yards on an ethical kill. But some of these long range shots can go up to 300 WIN MAG (and bigger) with some heavy projectiles. So if distance is long and shot off slightly, extra "ummmph" in cartridge can adjust for that. Saw a guy a range before hunting season with a .338 Lapua he was going to use for Elk. Most Elk in the area are in a semi-wooded part of the state. That was his tool of choice. His tag, no dog in that fight. Song dog hunters here go out to 900 yards with a 300 WIN MAG and think nothing of it. Not condoning that. Everyone does it different.
Personally not how I choose to hunt. I know and practice often with my hunting rifle especially just prior to a hunt. Will l take a shot at an antelope or deer at 600 yards with my 30-06, yes given the right circumstances.
So back to original thought, in a area where a 300 yard shot is max and long range, a .223 bolt will work fine IMO. As with any caliber, shot placement is foremost in importance.

[carrmillus]

Tommy, I had to look that one up, the Colt Lightening 44-40. You ain't got to worry about me buying one of those puppies. If I could afford one of them I'd go ahead and buy your T-Bird too.
Treefarmer

...TF, I would give anything if I had my grandpa's-he got it off a bootlegger during a whiskey raid back in the 1940's and he let me take it deer hunting when I was about 15-we didn't see a deer that day, but on our way out of the woods, I shot it 5 times!!.... it was like getting hit with a baseball bat!!...when I got home and took off my shirt, my left shoulder was one big bruise!!..I think it weighed 6.5 lbs.....my orig. .44-40 henry weighs over 9 lbs and it has not much more kick than a .22!!!.......... .............

[carrmillus]

Tommy, I had to look that one up, the Colt Lightening 44-40. You ain't got to worry about me buying one of those puppies. If I could afford one of them I'd go ahead and buy your T-Bird too.
Treefarmer

...TF, I would give anything if I had my grandpa's-he got it off a bootlegger during a whiskey raid back in the 1940's and he let me take it deer hunting when I was about 15-we didn't see a deer that day, but on our way out of the woods, I shot it 5 times!!.... it was like getting hit with a baseball bat!!...when I got home and took off my shirt, my left shoulder was one big bruise!!..I think it weighed 6.5 lbs.....my orig. .44-40 henry weighs over 9 lbs and it has not much more kick than a .22!!!.......... .............

...TBIRD is still for sale!!!......... ...........

[cudgee]

Just a question, you say that lots of deer have been taken with a 22lr, is that a .22 long rifle. The only reason i ask apart from curiosity, is it is illegal to hunt deer over here with a small calibre such as a .22.

Yes, a 22 long rifle. As TF said it was the poachers tool. They would go out at night and blind the deer with a bright light and shoot it with the 22lr. I’ve also heard stories about when bow season became a reality years ago that a lot of those old guys would shoot the deer with the 22 and then stick and arrow in the hole in case they were checked.

Please don’t think I am advocating this, I am not. I’m just saying that plenty of deer have been taken with much less than a 223, which under the right circumstances and distance is adequate to take a deer, especially at the short ranges we shoot deer here in my area. Personally, I like bigger holes though.

To chime in on this, I agree that shot placement is key regardless of caliber but obviously especially when using lighter calibers and loads, depending on game size. Where I live in the Nevada desert, a 100 to 150 yard shot would be considered "close range" as we are not in woods but open desert and tough mountains to hunt. Average shot likely 300 yards I imagine with some shots out to 600 plus yards on an ethical kill. But some of these long range shots can go up to 300 WIN MAG (and bigger) with some heavy projectiles. So if distance is long and shot off slightly, extra "ummmph" in cartridge can adjust for that. Saw a guy a range before hunting season with a .338 Lapua he was going to use for Elk. Most Elk in the area are in a semi-wooded part of the state. That was his tool of choice. His tag, no dog in that fight. Song dog hunters here go out to 900 yards with a 300 WIN MAG and think nothing of it. Not condoning that. Everyone does it different.
Personally not how I choose to hunt. I know and practice often with my hunting rifle especially just prior to a hunt. Will l take a shot at an antelope or deer at 600 yards with my 30-06, yes given the right circumstances.
So back to original thought, in a area where a 300 yard shot is max and long range, a .223 bolt will work fine IMO. As with any caliber, shot placement is foremost in importance.

Thanks, most interesting reading. As a kid i was taught with an air rifle, before i was allowed to progress to a .22 i had to show my proficiency with the air rifle. The most important things that were drummed into me, which stuck with me forever were, gun safety and shot placement.

[zp4ja]

Thanks, most interesting reading. As a kid i was taught with an air rifle, before i was allowed to progress to a .22 i had to show my proficiency with the air rifle. The most important things that were drummed into me, which stuck with me forever were, gun safety and shot placement.

Thanks cudgee for the input! I also was raised on gun safety, ethics, humane kills, knowing when a shot was feasible or beyond limitations for hunting. Shooting paper is a whole different ball of wax.
We were duck hunting once and asked Dad at me being 8 yo my maybe, I asked my Dad why he didn't shoot a duck on the water surface we surprised from about 20 feet away. Not ethical or sportsman like Son was his answer. That stuck with me forever as it made sense even at a young age.
They hunt mountain lion around here. Been asked to go. Asked if they will use dogs. Answer was yes so I declined. Something about shooting a big cat out of a tree or cornered by dogs has no appeal to me as a hunter given what was instilled in me as a young boy.
For me, all we hunted with was a .22, .243 or 30-06, that's it. 22 not big enough, use .243. .243 not big enough, go to 30-06. Still use same guns I used back then for game besides a .17 HMR that I love for spring squirrel hunting.. Shot 128 of 150 attempts in two hours here a couple year back. That is some fun hunting to help hay farmers out since they descimate their fields.
Anyway All, thanks for allowing me to share.
Regards, Jerry

EDIT to add a squirrel hunt pic from a couple years back. You get extra points for a head shot or two for one. I had a pretty good run that day with large brass pile at my feet. Typical range is 25 to 200 yards on a small target sometimes looking at you and not moving. Sometimes bobbing and weaving about. Fun stuff.

[FRJ]

So, you think you know cartridges.

I came across this manual in my library the other day.
I took 3 pictures each of U.S., England and France.
U.S. had 9 pages, England 15 and France had 7 pages. Plus other assorted cartridge information.
Kind of an eye opener for me.

[FRJ]

England and France ............

[doglegg]

Joe that looks like a really interesting book. Interesting interplay between cartridge design then the design of the guns to shoot them. Seems to me that in the last 20 years most of the impressive changes have been in bullet design and construction.

[FRJ]

Seems to me that in the last 20 years most of the impressive changes have been in bullet design and construction.

I think you're right, doglegg.

[Colonel26]

Just a question, you say that lots of deer have been taken with a 22lr, is that a .22 long rifle. The only reason i ask apart from curiosity, is it is illegal to hunt deer over here with a small calibre such as a .22.

Yes, a 22 long rifle. As TF said it was the poachers tool. They would go out at night and blind the deer with a bright light and shoot it with the 22lr. I’ve also heard stories about when bow season became a reality years ago that a lot of those old guys would shoot the deer with the 22 and then stick and arrow in the hole in case they were checked.

Please don’t think I am advocating this, I am not. I’m just saying that plenty of deer have been taken with much less than a 223, which under the right circumstances and distance is adequate to take a deer, especially at the short ranges we shoot deer here in my area. Personally, I like bigger holes though.

To chime in on this, I agree that shot placement is key regardless of caliber but obviously especially when using lighter calibers and loads, depending on game size. Where I live in the Nevada desert, a 100 to 150 yard shot would be considered "close range" as we are not in woods but open desert and tough mountains to hunt. Average shot likely 300 yards I imagine with some shots out to 600 plus yards on an ethical kill. But some of these long range shots can go up to 300 WIN MAG (and bigger) with some heavy projectiles. So if distance is long and shot off slightly, extra "ummmph" in cartridge can adjust for that. Saw a guy a range before hunting season with a .338 Lapua he was going to use for Elk. Most Elk in the area are in a semi-wooded part of the state. That was his tool of choice. His tag, no dog in that fight. Song dog hunters here go out to 900 yards with a 300 WIN MAG and think nothing of it. Not condoning that. Everyone does it different.
Personally not how I choose to hunt. I know and practice often with my hunting rifle especially just prior to a hunt. Will l take a shot at an antelope or deer at 600 yards with my 30-06, yes given the right circumstances.
So back to original thought, in a area where a 300 yard shot is max and long range, a .223 bolt will work fine IMO. As with any caliber, shot placement is foremost in importance.

The farthest shot I’ve taken on a deer is probably 30 yards. Of course I hunt in the woods. If the rut is on good you can sit under a tree and the does with just about step on you and if you don’t move the bucks will pay no attention. Lol (just like teenage boys). An old Marlin 336sc in 35 Rem with open sights works real good in that set up.

I’d LOVE to see that country of yours. I can’t imagine land flat enough and empty enough to shoot those distances.

[zp4ja]

Yes, a 22 long rifle. As TF said it was the poachers tool. They would go out at night and blind the deer with a bright light and shoot it with the 22lr. I’ve also heard stories about when bow season became a reality years ago that a lot of those old guys would shoot the deer with the 22 and then stick and arrow in the hole in case they were checked.

Please don’t think I am advocating this, I am not. I’m just saying that plenty of deer have been taken with much less than a 223, which under the right circumstances and distance is adequate to take a deer, especially at the short ranges we shoot deer here in my area. Personally, I like bigger holes though.

To chime in on this, I agree that shot placement is key regardless of caliber but obviously especially when using lighter calibers and loads, depending on game size. Where I live in the Nevada desert, a 100 to 150 yard shot would be considered "close range" as we are not in woods but open desert and tough mountains to hunt. Average shot likely 300 yards I imagine with some shots out to 600 plus yards on an ethical kill. But some of these long range shots can go up to 300 WIN MAG (and bigger) with some heavy projectiles. So if distance is long and shot off slightly, extra "ummmph" in cartridge can adjust for that. Saw a guy a range before hunting season with a .338 Lapua he was going to use for Elk. Most Elk in the area are in a semi-wooded part of the state. That was his tool of choice. His tag, no dog in that fight. Song dog hunters here go out to 900 yards with a 300 WIN MAG and think nothing of it. Not condoning that. Everyone does it different.
Personally not how I choose to hunt. I know and practice often with my hunting rifle especially just prior to a hunt. Will l take a shot at an antelope or deer at 600 yards with my 30-06, yes given the right circumstances.
So back to original thought, in a area where a 300 yard shot is max and long range, a .223 bolt will work fine IMO. As with any caliber, shot placement is foremost in importance.

The farthest shot I’ve taken on a deer is probably 30 yards. Of course I hunt in the woods. If the rut is on good you can sit under a tree and the does with just about step on you and if you don’t move the bucks will pay no attention. Lol (just like teenage boys). An old Marlin 336sc in 35 Rem with open sights works real good in that set up.

I’d LOVE to see that country of yours. I can’t imagine land flat enough and empty enough to shoot those distances.

Hey Wade,
Hope you and your family are well.
Not sure if you saw this in the Outdoorsman Thread years back but here it is...

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=28684&p=476168&hilit=Heart#p476168

About a three hundred yard shot due to sharp decline if I understand that concept correctly. Heart shot and as much as I practiced up to day prior, luck may have had alot to do with it. Regardless, pull trigger and him dropping like a rock was easy part of that hunt. Pic 3 shows where I shot him in those light green blood bushes (as I recall they are named. Whatever they are, the deer love the berries) way down toward that lone rock formation. In all that landscape in photo, there is very loose shale rock in the grass and bushes to make the 35 degree climb to Keep even more fun.

Here are additional photos of the area I live in. Pictures 7 and 8 are from my new job that requires about 50% travel to mountain tops via 4WD, Polaris with snow tracks or Snow Cat dependent on weather of course.. The view from the office is like none other but also show huge flat valleys and very scarce trees in regards to Wade's inquiry.

Our shooting range (10 minutes away, no range master and free paid by cheap taxes) is 400 yards max now (among other shooting options here) with BLM plans to 1000 yards when the governmental clock finally ticks to allow it.
We have a thousand yard range outside of Reno and a 600 yard range in Elko with plans there for a 1200 yard range. An hour or two from both though.
There are some unofficial / informal yet totally legal long range shoots here. Find a mountain as bullet stop and drive out as far as you want. Never been to one but would love too. I am told they do 1000 and 1500 yards with .50 BMG and other longer range reachers.

Loved the woods especially for hunting and beauty. Lived close to your neck of the woods when I was 7 or 8 in Florence, KY and did some fun fishing and hunting there.
My heart and soul is in Nevada now. I will stay till they kick me out or I am gone.
Sorry for topic drift, just love where I am now.
Regards, Jerry

[cudgee]

I for one are glad you had a topic drift. Great reading and fantastic photo's. Can see why you love it.

[Colonel26]

That sure is beautiful country.

[treefarmer]

I’ll amen cudgee’s comments!
Jerry, can’ get used to them big ol’ ears.
Again, what beautiful country.
Treefarmer

[doglegg]

Wonderful pic's, thanks for sharing them. Love that country.

[carrmillus]

To chime in on this, I agree that shot placement is key regardless of caliber but obviously especially when using lighter calibers and loads, depending on game size. Where I live in the Nevada desert, a 100 to 150 yard shot would be considered "close range" as we are not in woods but open desert and tough mountains to hunt. Average shot likely 300 yards I imagine with some shots out to 600 plus yards on an ethical kill. But some of these long range shots can go up to 300 WIN MAG (and bigger) with some heavy projectiles. So if distance is long and shot off slightly, extra "ummmph" in cartridge can adjust for that. Saw a guy a range before hunting season with a .338 Lapua he was going to use for Elk. Most Elk in the area are in a semi-wooded part of the state. That was his tool of choice. His tag, no dog in that fight. Song dog hunters here go out to 900 yards with a 300 WIN MAG and think nothing of it. Not condoning that. Everyone does it different.
Personally not how I choose to hunt. I know and practice often with my hunting rifle especially just prior to a hunt. Will l take a shot at an antelope or deer at 600 yards with my 30-06, yes given the right circumstances.
So back to original thought, in a area where a 300 yard shot is max and long range, a .223 bolt will work fine IMO. As with any caliber, shot placement is foremost in importance.

The farthest shot I’ve taken on a deer is probably 30 yards. Of course I hunt in the woods. If the rut is on good you can sit under a tree and the does with just about step on you and if you don’t move the bucks will pay no attention. Lol (just like teenage boys). An old Marlin 336sc in 35 Rem with open sights works real good in that set up.

I’d LOVE to see that country of yours. I can’t imagine land flat enough and empty enough to shoot those distances.

........great photo's!!!!!........... ......................
Hey Wade,
Hope you and your family are well.
Not sure if you saw this in the Outdoorsman Thread years back but here it is...

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=28684&p=476168&hilit=Heart#p476168

About a three hundred yard shot due to sharp decline if I understand that concept correctly. Heart shot and as much as I practiced up to day prior, luck may have had alot to do with it. Regardless, pull trigger and him dropping like a rock was easy part of that hunt. Pic 3 shows where I shot him in those light green blood bushes (as I recall they are named. Whatever they are, the deer love the berries) way down toward that lone rock formation. In all that landscape in photo, there is very loose shale rock in the grass and bushes to make the 35 degree climb to Keep even more fun.

Here are additional photos of the area I live in. Pictures 7 and 8 are from my new job that requires about 50% travel to mountain tops via 4WD, Polaris with snow tracks or Snow Cat dependent on weather of course.. The view from the office is like none other but also show huge flat valleys and very scarce trees in regards to Wade's inquiry.

Our shooting range (10 minutes away, no range master and free paid by cheap taxes) is 400 yards max now (among other shooting options here) with BLM plans to 1000 yards when the governmental clock finally ticks to allow it.
We have a thousand yard range outside of Reno and a 600 yard range in Elko with plans there for a 1200 yard range. An hour or two from both though.
There are some unofficial / informal yet totally legal long range shoots here. Find a mountain as bullet stop and drive out as far as you want. Never been to one but would love too. I am told they do 1000 and 1500 yards with .50 BMG and other longer range reachers.

Loved the woods especially for hunting and beauty. Lived close to your neck of the woods when I was 7 or 8 in Florence, KY and did some fun fishing and hunting there.
My heart and soul is in Nevada now. I will stay till they kick me out or I am gone.
Sorry for topic drift, just love where I am now.
Regards, Jerry