BEAUTIFUL CUSTOM CALENDAR SHRADE CUTCO POCKET KNIFE ??????

[lt632ret]

I just received an inquiry about an item which just appeared on ebay and I thought I would answer with my opinion here before I get any more emails on it . Schrade Cutlery CO ( pre 1946 ) made a CPC calulating perpetual calandar knife . It is quite sought after by collectors I know one dealer right now who has one and is asking 2500 dollars. I am attaching a pic from Sargants first edition with a black and white photo from the 80tys quoting a price of 1000 dollars then. I am attaching a pic of mine as well you will see it has the letteres CPC on the gold plate EMBOSSED sides. as well as the year 1937 The item on ebay is BEAUTIFUL CUSTOM CALENDAR SHRADE CUTCO POCKET KNIFE Item number: 280237814063 . it has blades marked Schrade Cut co Walden NY. Now it is not well known that Latima from Italy also made a version of this knife for Swank mens jewelery. Most of these were silver metal sided. This knife brings 30 or 40 dollars. I am attaching a picture of mine. The main blade on the Schrade has an elongated long style nail niche while the Latima has a regular niche. ( the main blade on this is an elongated niche Schrade cut blade) It should however be noted that the nail file blade and the main blade from Schrade are not difficult to find since they were used on several other patterns which are not very expensive. These could easily be substituted for the Latima blades again I do not know if the latimas were done in gold plate but it is not difficult to do especially when the difference in value is over 2000 dollars. Again the Walden issue is embossed and lettered. Some of the Waldens are monagramed but usually in a different manner than the one on ebay . While the Swank versions usually allowed the buyer to send the knife back for custom fancy initials for 5 dollars back then. So is this a Schrade Cut or is it a changling ( or as the seller calls it custom) ? I do not know I am casting no aspirsions simply pointing out the facts. Also note the subtle differences of the frames of both knives. I will not be bidding on it . After all I already have one of each. So it is up to you is it real or is it memorex ( as the old commercial used to say) I know my decision. PS Thanks for the heads up Randy so that I noticed the item. LT PS the seller has a good feedback and I am not sure if he is aware of any of these facts . Most buyers and even collectors might not be. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... EF:US:1120

[upnorth]

Thanks for the heads up, LT!

[ea42]

VERY interesting post LT, definitely one for the Schrade files! Some interesting details I've noticed now that you mention it.

Eric

[Hukk]

An extremely interesting knife, thanks for showing us. As you mention gold plating is extremely easy to do and not very expensive as a tiny bit goes a long way - even at todays gold prices. It is as easy as rigging a circuit, one end a cathode the other the anode. The gold comes in a glass tube in a prepared solution. Simply put the handle in sans blades - apply current -- done.

A little simplified but thats it in a nutshell.

Thanks for showing this knife!

[ea42]

OK, now that it's over, I'll say that I'm torn between real and cobbled. The shackle on the Ebay knife matches the Latama shackle, as does the smooth case versus the machined on the Schrade.. On the other hand, the calendar on the Latama goes all the way to the edge of the case, whereas on the Schrade and the Ebay knives, the calendar comes up a bit short of the edge, and there are the nail nicks as well. The Schrade calendar also has dark numbering, the Latama and Ebay knives don't. The ones (digits) on the Latama calendar have the little European hook to them, while the Schrade and Ebay knives have straight ones. Seems to lean more towards the real thing, but who knows!! What's your take on it LT?

Eric

[lt632ret]

It is a fake Schrade. The blades are Schrade the rest is not if you stop over I will show you the actual knives . I just looked it up and 303 dollars is amazing. Oh well in any event it is about as blatant a ruse ( er custom ) as you will see. To each his own. Schrade never used a smooth sided non embossed non lettered version . That really says it all. It cannot be correct if any of it is wrong So call it a custom or call it a 300 dollar ripoff what ever it is it is not a Schrade it has been put together The Schrades were made in 1937 the Latimas in the Late 40tys and fiftys. You may call it cobbled, custom , or whatever, however it is not a Schrade produced knife ( except for the blades ). In 1937 Schrade was not producing custom versions of the one knife they produced of this pattern. While they did use these blades on several other styles of knives . The long pull same blade small gunstock is one which comes to mind offhand without looking anything up. I guess I have been trying to be to polite recently and not stir things up so let me make it clear the authenticity of the knife is BULLSHIT it was fabricated to make a buck and at best is an oddity. Apparently someone felt this oddity was worth 300 dollars more power to them but please let me make myself clear that is all it was. Strange you mention the shackles I just found a small bag of them the other day while going through the shed which was partially torn down last week when the freak NY tornado went through my back yard. The point being parts are around the original versions of these are much more rare . I do not know if the seller realized what he was selling or if the knife was made by someone who just wanted to put something together but be assured it is not correct. I very seldom call knives fakes or incorrect unless I know what I am dealing with I do not even usually voice opinions on forums that discuss these issues. Also I have knives which have been rebuilt ( so that I have examples of some patterns I cannot other wise find ) If I trade or sell these ( which would be rare) I would always advise the other party of this fact as you know I value my credibility above all else it is for that reason that I made this posting regarding this knife and it authentic validity. LT PS Calendar knives while fairly rare are a study unto themselves versions with large initials from mens assessory companies were big in the fortys and fiftys there were several versions. I have attached some pics of a round six year version 1941-1946 to illustrate the point. it should also be noted that the actual gold versions of the Schrade version were usually marked TIFFANYS ( with a gold stamping) since the gold versus the gold plate were mostly sold by this company as a high end mens accessory. Most of these calendar knives and styles are well known to collectors of these items. As with most styles of knives over the years I have collected various pieces as a periferial callections that is items acquired as part of purchased collections ect. Unfortunately because of there rarity many collectors are not overly familiar with this particular field of study as such it is easy to fabricate something and call it something else. These were for the most part inexpensive pieces and the only reason to fabricate a knife to imitate another would seem to be monetary since as historical artifacts they have there own niche. Only the Schrade versions demand high money. I have also included a picture taken by a friend of mine of the tornado which after picking a fight with me in my back yard was seen leaving the area and passing over Newburgh bay ( Hudson River ) about 15 miles away it must have been a chicken s... tornado because while it put up a decent fight ( I still have roof shingles in trees umm should have taken a pic of that ). It quit before I did . Hailstones the size of golf balls or bigger before I could get my helmet and ball bat to try to hit a few back to answer the attack it had left. Did you ever hit hailstones back into a tornado? Always wear a helmet. It is like cooking bacon never do it in the nude.

[ea42]

Thanks LT, great explanation as usual! Last night I was convinced it was a fake just by the different shackle alone. Today, after looking at it more closely, I was sort of thinking that it might have at one time been the real thing, can you see where that was going? PLEASE don't anyone try to sell me any bridges!! At any rate that crazy monogram would have killed the sale for me even if it was the real thing

Eric

[thawk]

Appreciate your expertise LT. Makes it a lot easier to do your homework. Didn't take that knife serious until I saw your warning. Always something new to learn. Do you know how many were made, or if they made the calendar knife after 1937?

[lt632ret]

The calendar knife was made only in 1937 which explains rarity . I would have answered sooner except I wanted to post pics of other gents knives of the period and the company. I hate excuses but sometimes that is all that is applicable. I am just to jammed up to do much on postings. Schrade numbers, amounts ect from this era are gone. No one alive and I know most of them, who knew all the old answers are gone as is most of the written history, many questions we have were simply not important back then so these statisics are gone . I have alot of the information going back to the 60tys and even before however I just cannot do everything myself. I have numerous unopened boxes of files who knows what they contain? I simply cannot get into for lack of time and space to do a proper job. I am one person alone. I would truly like to see this history and heritage kept alive especially since so much of the old stuff is gone. However it is not all gone I know because I have it. It is a lonesome battle and I notice our number is dwindling in favor of the plagerists and bandwagon jumpers whos knowledge is quite limited and who have there own agendas. it is tough to write laws have them passed . collect the artifacts and establish the museum to keep this history alive. that includes using personal displays time and money. As well as writing books, articles and postings I have felt recently that since i have agreed to be part of the Schrade collectors society national society I have lost some favor. Since S Taylor and Pipes are importing and selling these brands. However by being on it I have a national platform to promote the museum and preservation of this american history and all I have ever promoted were USA Schrade and this cutlery history which then and now were and are made in the USA ( Yes Taylor is making a couple of (patterns here to see if Americans feel strongly enough about them to buy american products. ) They wont but they will bitch and they will do nothing to save our American history not only in this field ). LT PS I believe the pics of the gents knives are somewhere in the archives perhapes someone can find them .

[upnorth]

Found varying amounts of gents knives in "Schrades My True Love" thread; pp.26. 25, 19, 17, 16, 14 (wall pics), 5.
My eyyes are bounnncing up and dowwwwn!!

[W5RWU]

What I find really funny is the dumb SOB that bought this one , This knife went to the right bidder!!!!!
LOL W5RWU

P.S. HOO ROO MATE

[lt632ret]

That is amazing now I am kind of sorry now that it went so low. He should have conferred with his close friend and expert from that forum for information. Humm perhapes he did. I do not like to see anyone stuck but I am only human and do not feel to sorry in this case . Perhapes it is what he wanted like i said to each his own. Well now he owns it and at least it is off the market. LT

[lt632ret]

I just got word from Randy of what happened on BF ( I do not belong to that forum and do not read the postings there ). However I was told that several of you guys stuck up for me and my opinion of the knife in question. I can understnd a fellow being sore when he gets took and is trying to justify his mistake if he is indeed truly happy with the item then I am glad for him. Again I only have the gist of what went on. I feel that there is not much more I could have done to validate my point. I posted a pic from Sargents book which shows the only model Schrade ever made I posted a pic of mine which is identical I also posted a pic of the Swank Latima model. I also explained the whole story I really do not know what else I could have done to prove the point. I am sorry that I am not as clever or knowledgable as some of those guys over there. I am however glad to be over here with people who have the courage to speak out in defense of what they believe true. I again want to thankyou for your support and I want to emphasize how much it means to me. I also want you to be assured that what I stated is true and you and I will not be shown to be wrong regarding this pattern and the validity of the piece in question. Thanks again, there aint many of us but we are a good bunch. Looks like this poor little picked on knife has finally gone to the right spot, I hope the owner uses and enjoys it and keeps it where it belongs down under. LT

[csmith9333]

Well said LT - I even made a bid before I read your post. So glade it went higher - Ha! Thanks for the insight. One H--- of a picture of the storm. CES

[Pen & Toothpick]

I was just wondering if the Sheath could be any clue to which one it is, it definatly looks like the original Sheath.

[lt632ret]

As far as the sheath I have never seen one like this from Schrade usually these came in a little jewelery box if it did have a purse ( that was the term for this style soft and tan like a coin purse with a snap from this era I can show you examples if it is important. In any event they did not use plastic gator in 1937 ( a bit early for plastic the were still using cell on knives)) What I find funny is that there is still some question as to what it is. Let me clarify Schrade made one style of this knife it was made in 1937 and duly marked with this date and on the other side same handle CPC the handle was embossed they made them in Gold and gold plate. This is shown in the Sgt first and second editions. it is the only model they made snd they bring big money. Latima made s bunch of similar knives with smooth sides in silver and possibly gold plate. Sold under Latima and also Made for swank mens jewelery Swank offered fancy monogram initials on most of there jewelery at a small extra charge this was much later 40ty and 50tys they often had fake gator ect pouchs. There really is nothing more to say I posted it to make anyone who cared aware. I also posted pics if it aint like the one in the Sargeant book it aint a factory Schrade, it does have a couple of Schrade blades. The handle was never made by Schrade. Hell I think at this point this would stand up in a court of law. There is nothing to figure out it is a knife all knives serve a purpose it will make a nice display I have nothing against it I only stated that it was not a Schrade factory piece which it is not. If someone wants to spend 300 bucks for a 30 dollar knife because it has two Schrade blades put in it more power to them. I have spent 50 plus years in this study , was Schrades curator and answered questions they received regarding antiquitys like this very knife. When Schrade closed the president of the company gave me the cornerstone of the original Ulster Knife company from his office and said that he felt I was the best person he could think of to be its guardian. I recently wrote a bill which has now become a law regarding allowing the display of automatic knives in NYS the first change in these laws since they were enacted in in 1958 , We presently have a organization The Warwarsing historic and knife association and are trying to establish a museum where this history will be preserved. I have written one book which explains some of the cutlery history in the Hudson valley it has been on the market for 7 years and is in its third printing. I write for several publications and used to do Schrades customer shows on the East coast. The fellow who bought this had every right to spend whatever he wanted on it but neither the price or his rantings will make it sny more valid. Of course according to him I am a Schrade expert wanna be. Perhapes he is correct in any event I posted this only to make my friends and people who might value my opinion aware or it. This guy likes to pot shot me and others, he knows that I have given my word not to post on BF, If he checks the archives I am sure he will find numerous postings from from years before he or his close friend who will not release me from my vow of not posting so that he might continue to. it is a point of honor and principle and if the original party will publicly release me from my promise I would be happy to explain any information the buyer might want to know. I do not really want to back to BF but if I have to I would instead of having this coward take pot shots at me when the simple truth is that he made a mistake and is not man enough to just admit it. He is trying to muddy up the truth through rants and insults. I didnt care who bought the item I just wanted to make people aware I posted well before the end of the auction and never contacted anyone else, except for the posting in other words I was a gentleman. Someone informed mr that when he was asked about the cost he said he didnt care about cost and that he had been a bank president. ( at least that is how it came to me second hand so I really did not see it . I do not belong to BF snd cannot seem to get into there anymore frankly I do not really want to try.) In any event if it is true and he was good at what he did then perhapes he should have stayed in that field because knives do not seem to be his forte. LT PS Sorry Pen and Toothpick I am just fed up with this I have done everything but go to court in this and all I wanted to do was the right thing. I hope I was not offensive in my answer and did not intend to be.

[Pen & Toothpick]

No problem and I have believed you all along....that knife has several serious issues.

I was more curious why no one questioned the Sheath with the same markings as on the knife.......and you pretty much confirmed that that is a big red flag too!

[sheathmaker]

Well, the knife made it to Australia to the new owner is really pleased with the out come. Turns out the knife handles are solid (not gold plate) 14K gold and a jewler who tested it offered around $1500 for the gold content and told him he could have anything not gold back. He, of course did not sell, but had he sold it wouldn't have been a bad $300+ investment would it?

Paul

[Pen & Toothpick]

Must have been a 6 inch long pen knife at least to make $1,500 in gold...didn't seem that big in the pictures.

[upnorth]

$1500?? PUHLEEEEZE!!

[Timstools]

Im not sure what relevance the bull has to this forum but it seems he may have got a bargain whatever it is.
Tim

[Hukk]

The math doesn't seem work. 14kt gold is only 58.3% pure gold. Gold is sold and measured in troy oz's which has only 12 oz to a lb. 4 troy oz's about, so nearly 1/3 LB US in 14kt gold or Au as it's also known. The math is not there for me to see roughly 1/3 LB of 14kt Au.

[upnorth]

Im not sure what relevance the bull has to this forum but it seems he may have got a bargain whatever it is.
Tim

If I was offered $1500 for that much knife, I'd take it and run. I can't see someone who is supposed to know gold offering that much for the metal in that knife. A fool and his money etc. etc. The story gets weirder and wilder as it proceeds. Seems to imply bullshit to me!
The owner can say what he wants, but that doesn't make it true, just because the knife is in his possession. I quote, "PUHLEEEEZE!".

[upnorth]

By the way, since everyone checking this sorry tale (tail? ) seems to have checked the "other" forum, does anyone know who that sh*t disturber Malleus is, who got banned? While I may agree with his sentiments, I disagree with his methods. Come on now, 'fess up; someone knows!
Criticizing the knives and deeds is one thing. Seems like we ought to lay off the people personally.

[Hukk]

Criticizing the knives and deeds is one thing. Seems like we ought to lay off the people personally.

BY ALL MEANS!