Great Knives-Little Money

[Jody744]

When I was a kid I bought Parker knives and Frost knives. Foreign made. Cheap. It’s what I liked and could afford. My tastes have changed, but I still have those knives. I have had American and German made knives I bought new that I wound up throwing away. In the trash. I think Rough Ryder has a place for those kinds of buyers. I have one, just like Doug posted above. I like it for what it is. Your mileage may vary

[glennbad]

I see that the quality of RR knives has increased over the years. I had a few of them a number of years back, and wasn't that happy with the performance of them at that time, but people seem to like them, and for the price, I guess you get a lot of knife for the money. They seem to be branching out and trying new patterns, so it's a good time to be a knife-nut. But to me, they are what they are. Regardless of all that, as the saying somewhat goes, there's a butt for every seat.

I personally won't buy or use them, for a couple of reasons. First, and it's a little political, while I still have the money and while American made knives are still available, I'll do my best to support American cutleries. We can certainly debate over quality vs. price, but there aren't a whole lot of products still made in the good ole USA. I'll just say this...if you live in this country, do your best to buy American, the job you save may be your own.

The other reason is simple...I have enough older knives of various make...USA, German, Sheffield that I consider to be high quality knives, even if they are old and beat up, and I don't see a $10 knife of any make pushing those out of my rotation.

[woodwalker]

To each is own. My grandpa didn't carry one. My dad didn't carry one. I've held a few of them and I can tell you I won't carry one. Just not my thing. I like cutlery with history. Lots of history. But that's just me and I feel others that like them should do as they wish. At least there knives and I like knives!!

[Ivoryman]

"Quote Orvet", I started writing this a few hours ago and got interrupted. My purpose in writing this by way of explanation to you, why I and other people may not interested in collecting Rough Rider knives. You seem to be wondering in your original post why people didn't collect them, this is my attempt to answer your question. I'm not attempting to convince you or anyone else to collect or not to collect Rough Riders or any other brand of pocketknives. I could really care less what knives people collect, apart from Schrade and Camillus. I'm not trying to encourage people to collect Schrade and Camillus because that means more competition for the rare pieces!

As far as collecting a bunch of Rough Rider knives is concern, everyone is kind of on their own to collect whatever they want, and I don't hear a great deal push back to anyone for collecting a specific brand. There are certain things to consider choosing a brand, and one of those things is the potential for increase in value. I think that's what drives a lot of people to collect GEC knives.
For me the exciting part about collecting a brand is doing the historical research and the thrill of the hunt search for hard to find examples.

I don't collect GEC because there's no history and there is really no search it's just being in the right place at the right time money in your hand to buy one. I'm sure you have heard many people say the hunt is more fun than the actual finding.

For me, when it comes to collecting Rough Riders, there is no interest for me.
1 - There is no potential for increased value, or very little, even though this isn't a big incentive to me, I expect it is to some people.
2 - There is no history to discover and research. This is important to me. Sometimes the history of a company makes me a fan of their knives.
3- With RR there is no thrill of discovery after a long search to find an elusive pattern! All I need to do just pick up a catalog and order.

As far as a using knife goes RR, they may be great; I will take your word for it. I look at them kind of like I do Case knives, I don't collect Case but if I find one I like that I want to use I will buy it. I have two or three seahorse whittlers that I use. I have a couple other I like and use but I don't collect them. If Rough Rider made a unique pattern that I needed for a specific task I might consider it. Unfortunately, I think they probably do not have the best steel in them, certainly not better steel than in dozens of knives I already own, so why would I want one? If I just want to spend money on a knife, I will get a use knife that I like and that has some interesting history to it, not a cookie cutter copy of an old knife or a remake of an old design.

Basically I don't collect Rough Riders because I have absolutely no interest in them. I don't buy them for users because I don't really care for them and I am fortunate that at this point in my life price point doesn't have to be my only consideration. If that ever becomes a consideration I will probably just keep my old knives and not by any new ones, I actually have plenty to choose from.

The last reasons which leave me no desire to buy Rough Rider knives are political.
1 – The government of China subsidizes its manufacturing so that it can maximize its leverage on the world market, especially against the United States. This is not good for our country, not good for manufacturing in our country and not good for the workers of our country. The bottom line is the policies of the government of China work against the good of every person in American. And I don't care if some people disagree with me, that is my belief and my prerogative is American citizen to hold such a belief, at least this one small point in time.
2 – Another political reason I don't buy Rough Rider knives is because of their support for North Vietnam and the Vietcong. They were one of the major suppliers of arms and munitions to the VC in the NVA. When you have had steel shot at you, it does take away a little of your enthusiasm for buying steel from the same government that provided the steel that was shot at you.
3 – I don't like to support a government that has an active policy of persecuting Christians, which China does. I love the Chinese people, they are absolutely amazing! I don't like to see my Chinese Christian brothers and sisters persecuted and imprisoned for their beliefs and possibly used as prison labor in a factory that is making a product that I might purchase. I realize given the current economic entanglements that we have with China, this means that the only viable products for some items are from China. But I do have many viable options to Chinese pocketknives and I choose to exercise those options rather than by a Rough Rider or any other knife manufactured in the PRC. I have a number of very good knives made in Taiwan, the people in Taiwan are free they do not exist under an autocratic government. I have no problem buying knives made in Taiwan, in fact I find them usually a very good value or the money.

Roland, my Canadian friend; even though we only live a few hundred miles apart, there is a cultural divide that prevents either of us from fully understanding why the other thinks as he does. This is true on the issue of guns and no doubt other issues as well. This post is my way of explaining why I (and others?) feel at best ambivalent about collecting RR knives. Stay well my friend. [/quote]

Amen, amen, and amen. Couldn't agree with you more Orvet, nailed about everythying. I do see some GEC history fascinating and interesting. I find the history of Ken Daniels and what he did before, during, and now after his start up to be phenomenal, interesting, and goes back further than many think. Rich history to me of him scrounging up funding, taking old, used, somewhat antiquated machines and started with regular good old American men and women and rocked the knife world. He probably single handledly beat Queen at their own game and shut them down. I know of no one who is making a better traditional knife today. He took GEC from NOTHING to an American success story like few others where he went up like David against Goliath Case and he beat them at their own game. GEC is now the standard in the industry and no other knife appreciates like some GEC in the market today. Case better watch out, Ken Daniels slayed Queen and he's coming for Case next.
As far as China, you nailed it. I tell everyone if they can choose, don't support the tyrannical dictatorship authoritarian idiocracy that runs China. Love the people, hate their party. Look what they are doing to Hong Kong and how can you support them? I can't choose all parts or componets, but I can choose to by knives from Titusville and Bradford instead of China. And I don't buy Chinese cars or trucks or motorcycles or bikes. China is the enemy of democracy, free market, majority rule, representative government.They are the biggest threat to the Chinese people there is. And they are the enemy of religion, intellectuall property copyright, and free internet etc. That alone should give pause for consideration.

[kootenay joe]

This was not at all what i had in mind when i started this thread. It has become an excuse to bash China. Join a political debate forum where your thoughts can be scrutinized by those with political knowledge and experience. I wanted to discuss knives.
kj

[New_Windsor_NY]

I am posting here instead of the Chinese Knife forum to get a wider readership.

This was not at all what i had in mind when i started this thread. It has become an excuse to bash China. Join a political debate forum where your thoughts can be scrutinized by those with political knowledge and experience. I wanted to discuss knives.
kj

kj

Hindsight being 20/20, maybe you should have posted this in the Chinese Knife forum, where you would've had a smaller readership.

[Mumbleypeg]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

[Ivoryman]

Chatting about knives is what it is, that might involve the market, politics, economy, cost, quality, preferences and the free flow of ideas and opinions is what makes this place what it is. What's wrong with that? Tangents happen. When you open your mouth and speak or write it, you don't get to choose what others will say in response or where they will go with it. I support everyone's right to say and comment whatever they want. Thought that was understood.

[Colonel26]

This was not at all what i had in mind when i started this thread. It has become an excuse to bash China. Join a political debate forum where your thoughts can be scrutinized by those with political knowledge and experience. I wanted to discuss knives.
kj

Fortunately this isn’t that other knife site. The free flow of ideas and conversation has been a cherished tradition here at aapk for as long as I’ve been here, and I suspect much longer.

But since we’re being monitored I’ll forgo my main reason for not owning a RR. The other reason is that I’ve never handled one that appealed to me. They don’t feel like quality in the hand to me. I don’t like the cheap stainless, I don’t like the jigging, they feel to me like a cheap gas station pocket knife. As a matter of fact the only thing I do like about them is that they make some discontinued patterns other makers have dropped.

Maybe I’ve just never seen a good one. I don’t know. But there are too many fine old HOK’s to be fooling with a RR. YMMV.

[Colonel26]

Oops! Looks like I-man has the same thought I did but was faster.

[Railsplitter]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

That one made me chuckle a little, Ken. I own a few Chinese knives and although your comments have a touch of humor in them, it's also a very good point and one that I'm inclined to agree with.

I never looked at it that way but now that you mentioned it, I would not want to die with a Chinese knife in my pocket either if I'm being honest.

[WillyCamaro]

You know somethin funny. I agree with everyone 100%. Love hate relationship with Rough Riders myself. Think they are tremendous knives for the price, but absolutely hate that they are made in China. That's why I stick to Imperials. In a matter of fact, I am sick and tired of buying stuff from China. For the last few years I've been trying to find stuff made anywhere but there. Getting lucky at it. Spend a little more, get better products anyway. Taiwan has come leaps and bounds these last few years. Now if RR were made in Taiwan that would change my outlook. I also notice many products have come back to USA/Canada. Thinking of hand/power tools off top of my head. Also bike parts and guitars for that matter. I notice many people thinking the same thing as me. China's economy is grinding to a halt, even before changes in USA relations. JMTB

[Lansky1]

I'm with Dale on most levels. I'm a post '70 Case guy almost exclusively - fact that they are USA made is a big part of why. I (fortunately) never had Chinese made lead shot at me, but if I did, I would absolutely share his sentiments. I have a couple GEC's but have a hard time justifying their cost because I use everything I have - don't collect knives (those I luckily managed to get for stupidly good deals) ... plus the last 2 GEC's I bought new (and sold at a loss) had really weak snap, which is totally unacceptable to me at that price point.

I do have one RR - I wanted to try their muskrat & work it up with the ratcliffe treatment. Must admit, it's got really nice snap and fit and finish exceeds expectations for a $15 knife. I haven't used it hard - but I did notice as I've sharpened so many Case SS knives on the lansky, the RR steel just felt softer on the stone - it was perceptible. It's probably just one of my quirks, but aside from the made in USA thing, the main reason I am not crazy about RR knives is the match striker nail nick - really dislike that feature & they insist on using it 99.9% of the time...

[Ivoryman]

We know not what tomorrow may bring. For me the politics is enough. But all I would have to do to resist temptation to buy a Chinese knife is imagine that I'm found dead with one on my person! Or one or more in my collection.

I can hear the gossip now: "tsk, tsk, did you know when they found him he had a Chinese knife in his pocket?!"



Ken

That one made me chuckle a little, Ken. I own a few Chinese knives and although your comments have a touch of humor in them, it's also a very good point and one that I'm inclined to agree with.

I never looked at it that way but now that you mentioned it, I would not want to die with a Chinese knife in my pocket either if I'm being honest.

Damn straight, nailed it both of you, couldn't agree more.

[espn77]

Ken's reason is pretty close to the same reason as why I dont buy them. When i die someone is going to have to get rid of all this stuff. My family sees all the time and enjoyment i get from knife collecting and I'd hate for them to have to try to sell them and realize that they are only worth $10 a piece. It won't even be worth there time to sell them. But if the knives have some real value they might actually see the value in them and develop a desire for them after I'm gone. Those are my reasonings. I think they will be surprised at what some of them might bring and think I'm not as crazy as they thought time will tell.

[kootenay joe]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

[Mumbleypeg]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

You have my deepest sympathy.

Ken

[orvet]

Roland when I answered you in that topic I thought you really wanted to know why people are not as excited about Rough Rider knives as you are. Instead you throw a fit and PM me wanting me to lock the topic because you didn’t get the answers you wanted??!

Now because I didn’t lock it down when you wanted me to you post an incredibly insensitive, malicious and highly inflammatory post. A post that would in any other knife forum I know of get you immediately banned from that forum. This is a classic example of trolling.

Give me one good reason why I should not band you right now.

[espn77]

That's the most bazaar post I've ever read on here.

[XX Case XX]

I'm pretty sure there is a "Sticky Topic" somewhere here that asks that none of us interject politics with knife discussions.

I'm not taking sides here, but I always thought this was a place where we could discuss knives without all the politics that sometimes goes with it. I myself have been guilty of that from time to time.

I certainly hope that cooler heads prevail and we can all continue to have these discussions in Peace.

___________
Mike

[colin.p]

Well after reading this somewhat sad/laughable thread, I can only say one thing: "If I could find RR knives up here, I'd buy one just for spite and piss off an American". I'll have to buy more Kizer, We, Reate, Civivi, Bestech, Artisan...

Oh and I'm glad GEC "put Queen out of business" and put another nail in Case's coffin (I'm actually definitely not glad and I hate to see knife companies put out of business), but some here may just love to see that hate mongering company from Oregon City closed down too?

Really guys, just relax and go and play another round of COD and get all that angst out of your system Oh, and other than a couple Chinese Buck knives and a Kizer, oh and a Grohmann too, all my other knives are from good ol' USA. I hope you don't mind.

[Dinadan]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

This post, and the whole thread, is a great example of why the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives forum exists. I like Rough Riders myself, but when I post reviews or comments about RR I do it in the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives forum. That way folks who do not want to see anything about China knives can ignore it.

And our culture may be self centered, but it is strange that most of the rest of the world seems to consume our entertainment, our sports, our technology, and dream of coming here.

[WillyCamaro]

1/2 hour writing up post and gone!

Basically went on long rant about freedom, free markets, bad governments, name calling, ect.
I think you said it Mike. We are all allowed to have personal opinions/say anything about anything, but you step over the line when you attack someone personally. Too much of that going on out-there nowadays.
I think it might be a wise decision to move this one over to the China Knives thread, or not.
Me, i'm sticking to Queen/Schatt & Morgan/Imperial and that'll leave more RR for the guys that want to buy em'.
Keep calm and carry on, I say!

[orvet]

I agree, it is time to move this topic to the Chinese Factory Manufactured Knives where it should've been posted to begin with.


TOPIC MOVED

[edge213]

Many of the posts here say more about the poster than they do about knives or China. They show an intense nationalist fervor.
Other countries do not train their citizens to believe their way is the best way, or if someone does not agree with you then force is in order (bar fight or drop flaming napalm on Vietnamese civilians).
I understand than you cannot see this because you have been immersed in this self centered culture from birth so it just seems 'right' or 'as it should be'. This is the divide between American culture and the rest of the world. Other countries/cultures do not divide the world into "us" and "them". They see people as people, not as Chinese people or Mexican people, etc.
I do not know what standard of living a worker in a Chinese knife manufacturing business has, or the boss, or the owner. I do know that in North America many factory workers as well as laborers are paid just enough to get by whereas the owners of businesses are often wealthy. Likely it is similar in China.
The value of a Democracy is said to be found in how it treats their most vulnerable citizens. It is good that 40.000,000 Americans get food stamps but it is not good that 40,000,000 Americans need food stamps to be able to stay alive.
Blaming American problems on 'others' e.g. people from Central America, Chinese, Blacks, Native North Americans, Canadians (25% steel & Al. tariff for being an "enemy of USA"), etc. is Denial, big time, lack of insight into the effects of your own attitudes and actions.
I post this with trepidation because i doubt my words will have any affect on how you see things. It will just add me to your list of 'enemies'. My integrity means i must state my beliefs and not remain silent in the face of so much that i disagree with.
The only requirement for evil to triumph is for good people to say nothing. I am not saying anyone here is evil or that i am good, but the principle is the same: duty to speak up.
kj

Now I see why you were banned from BF. Because of your hatred for America.
I thought you being a "doctor" you would have to be more educated than you seem to be.
If not for the U.S. there would be no free world. I don't think Canada had the balls or the military to keep the world from Nazi or Communist take over, so for you to bad mouth the U.S. as you do is pathetic.
I use a small tablet to use this forum so long responses are not going to happen.
I would love for you to PM me and I will give you my phone number so we could discuss this further.