Origin of Unusual Vintage ? Fixed Blade

[kootenay joe]

This knife has a wood lined brass ? handle & scabbard that has a figural design of a sea serpent. OAL of knife is 9 1/2", blade is 6". The blade has a fuller for about half the blade length, on both sides. Distal to the fullers the fairly stout blade has bilateral swaging that leads to a stout but very sharp point. This might be designed to penetrate chain mail or other armor. The handle is held onto the tang by a removal wooden pin. I cannot see any markings on the tang.
This construction and obviously forged blade is typical of vintage Japanese knife & sword making. Can you think of any other likely option ?
I know vintage Japanese cutlery is a highly specialized field. Some of these knives & swords are very valuable. Most of these have the maker's marking so they can be ID'd and dated accurately (as long as not fake). Some unmarked ones can be ID'd by certain features typical of a certain maker.
I wonder what value this knife might have to a knowledgeable collector of vintage Japanese cutlery.
kj

[dlr110]

There may be no correlation at all, but I have a knife of the same construction, less ornate as yours, however mine came from Ethiopia, Africa.
The inside of the scabbard is even the same. Just thought I would offer up the info. Good Luck.

[kootenay joe]

DR the handle & scabbard of your knife look to be wood not brass. And handle attachment on yours looks permanent, not take a part.
Thanks for posting it but it is a different type of knife from the one i am asking about.
kj

[tongueriver]

The figure appears to be an aquatic crustacean, probably a prawn.

[Mumbleypeg]

My guess, and it’s only a guess, is it’s of Asian origin. My first thought on seeing it was “Philippines”. I’m probably wrong.

Ken

[knives-are-quiet]

I never heard of wooden pegs used to attach handles .
Too much expansion & contraction to stay stable and tight.
The original was probably brass too.
The knife is too long and very thick for chopping.
Trying to peal a prawn or shrimp would be very hard.
Usually the image on the scabbard and handle are the subject of what the knife was used for.
I think it's a carving of a lobster and that's what the knife was made for.
Splitting and Chopping the hard shells of these crustaceans.

It does look Asian but could be from anywhere from South America, Hawaii to Norway or even one of the States in the upper east coast.
Anywhere lobsters are in abundance.
Most likely handmade and one of a kind.

[kootenay joe]

The construction of the handle with wood pin is TYPICAL of vintage Japanese knives and swords. Some of these are valued well over $10,000. There is nothing 'flimsy' about this construction. It has been done in Japan for over 1000 years.
Most of the take apart handle knives have the tang marked with Japanese characters that can ID maker and century. Mine is not marked as is the case for a great many vintage Japanese knives.
Too much speculation promotes misinformation and the knife world already has enough of this.
I am hoping that someone who has spent some time studying vintage Japanese knives might see this and comment.
That said, it might not be from Japan. But the style is vintage Japanese. And this is not a tourist piece. The blade was forged by a master and as a weapon to puncture, it is more lethal than any other dagger i have owned. I think it was made to be able to penetrate some type of body armor.
kj

[Dinadan]

Joe - I know you do not want speculation, and I do not have any actual knowledge. However, I am going to speculate anyway. The wood peg holding the handle makes me think Japanese more than any other feature of the knife. But overall, that knife just does not look Japanese to me. Maybe it could be from some outlying area like Korea.

[knives-are-quiet]

I know samurai swords come apart for cleaning the handle material.
What would be the purpose of disassembling this knife?
That handle whether it used a wood pin or not was fixed to stay together at one point.
Years of use has made it loose enough to disassemble the knife which makes you think it's Japanese.
The knife maybe Asian but I doubt it's worth 10,000 .
Until you get evidence where and who made it , it's just a cool old knife.
Unless you get it carbon dated it could have been made last year in someone's garage.

I can tell you one thing for certain.
The knife was not made for fighting.
It's a fishing knife...…….

[kootenay joe]

You are making things up. Idle speculation is not knowledge. The pin is not loose. It is made to be taken apart. Why ? I don't know, but it has been done this way for a very long time. This blade is far to stout to slice anything. It was made to puncture. Look at the pictures.
The crustacean like animal that the scabbard and handle show is likely a mythical creature that signifies certain qualities or position in a certain group of people.

[knives-are-quiet]

The only other thing it could be is a Japanese Aikuchi or suicide dagger.
The wood pin would make sense for cleaning like the sword.
If it is a Aikuchi then it was made to just stab once so tightness of the handle is not required.
But the crustacean pattern or whatever doesn't fit and I've never seen a Aikuchi that primitive.
They are usually much more ornate. Or very plain with no design.
But you never know.....I'd have it looked at by a pro.

All you'll get here is speculation till you bring it to a museum and have it evaluated and get it in writing.
Even if you find and expert here on this forum they would need to see it in real time to be sure of it's authenticity.
You would be surprised at the fakes out there.
I used to help restore knives and we could make them look as original as the real ones from just a few original parts.
It takes an expert to tell the difference.
There are all kinds of chemicals and secret tricks that can make things look old.

"I don't make things up. I tell it like it is"
The root of all knowledge is experience
take it easy

[just bob]

Roland that is a neat old knife. Thank you for taking the time to post the pictures and sharing it. That's the kind of knife I'd pass over in an antique mall, assuming it was modern. It does look like a lobster head now that it has been described as that. What is the process to get it authenticated? Where do you send it and how much does it cost? Is this the kind of work Bernard Levine does? Keep us posted.

[knives-are-quiet]

1st I'd bring it to an authority of Japanese cutlery to see if it is actually Asian, old and real.
The cutlery expert should be able to tell if it's original or re-pop and if it was made by an amateur or by a pro knife maker.
A certificate of authenticity would be next.

Levine's a hack.
Bring it to a professional of Asian artifacts.

[kootenay joe]

I would like to have it assessed by an 'expert' in vintage Japanese cutlery. Then i would know if truly vintage or modern and likely country of origin.
How do i find such a person ? One who is recognized as knowledgeable by those who collect vintage Japanese cutlery, not just someone promoting themselves online as an 'expert appraiser'.
If anyone knows how i might find such a 'knife specialist', please let me know.
And 'just bob': "That's the kind of knife I'd pass over in an antique mall,"
Me too unless i picked it up, held the knife out of scabbard and then looked at the blade. Then you would know you are holding a real knife with a lethal blade, not made for tourists or as a fun artsy project. And looking at the wood that lines the handle and scabbard you can see it is old.
kj

[knife7knut]

I would like to have it assessed by an 'expert' in vintage Japanese cutlery. Then i would know if truly vintage or modern and likely country of origin.
How do i find such a person ? One who is recognized as knowledgeable by those who collect vintage Japanese cutlery, not just someone promoting themselves online as an 'expert appraiser'.
If anyone knows how i might find such a 'knife specialist', please let me know.
And 'just bob': "That's the kind of knife I'd pass over in an antique mall,"
Me too unless i picked it up, held the knife out of scabbard and then looked at the blade. Then you would know you are holding a real knife with a lethal blade, not made for tourists or as a fun artsy project. And looking at the wood that lines the handle and scabbard you can see it is old.
kj

Roland:I believe it i of Japanese origin and a side dagger of some type(sorry;I'm not well versed on Japanese knives).The only person I know of that could tell you is a gentleman named Rich Stein who lives in New Jersey and has a web site. He is very knowledgeable and honest and would know if anyone does.I'll see if I can find his contact info.Nice knife!

[kootenay joe]

Thank you Ray. I will follow up whatever info you give me.
kj

[knives-are-quiet]

Some info for you on this gentleman mentioned by Ray at the below links .
You could join and post this particular knife on the forum below.

Hope this info helps.
I'm very interested as you are in finding info about your unique knife.

JW


https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/30 ... ord-index/