Weak snap on a GEC?

GEC specializes in highly collectable and premium quality usable pocket knives. The company's USA manufactured knives have quickly proven to be a big hit with both collectors and users who seek quality American craftsmanship.
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Railsplitter
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Railsplitter » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:19 pm

Mumbleypeg wrote:
Maybe I just don’t know what to look for. ::shrug:: Anyone got pictures of this problem?

Ken


Ken, it looks like this. Just a small ding in the sharpened edge.
IMG_4708.JPG

IMG_4709.JPG


It's easy to miss unless you are looking for it but it's noticeable when cutting certain materials. I cut a lot of shrink wrap at work and if I haven't already discovered the problem, I'll know about it then because the edge gets hung up on the shrink wrap.

The knife above is this Schatt & Morgan #69 Jack.
IMG_3896.JPG
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ken98k
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:22 pm

Well I guess I've got it wrong all these years, thinking a strong mainspring was good thing. I guess I should throw out all my old knives that have alligator snap. :roll:
Anyone interested in a couple hundred junk knives that make too much noise when you open and close them?
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Doc B
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Doc B » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:09 pm

ken98k wrote:Well I guess I've got it wrong all these years, thinking a strong mainspring was good thing. I guess I should throw out all my old knives that have alligator snap. :roll:
Anyone interested in a couple hundred junk knives that make too much noise when you open and close them?

Assuming the tang is configured ideally...it is designed to hit the backspring and prevent this. Often users report...if they notice this...after a couple of sharpenings, the blade no longer is long enough to hit the backspring.
Heretical Refurb / Mods of cheap old folders, since late 2018

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Mumbleypeg
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Mumbleypeg » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:24 pm

Doc B wrote:
ken98k wrote:Well I guess I've got it wrong all these years, thinking a strong mainspring was good thing. I guess I should throw out all my old knives that have alligator snap. :roll:
Anyone interested in a couple hundred junk knives that make too much noise when you open and close them?

Assuming the tang is configured ideally...it is designed to hit the backspring and prevent this. Often users report...if they notice this...after a couple of sharpenings, the blade no longer is long enough to hit the backspring.


All this time I’ve been thinking that the purpose of the blade kick on a properly built knife was to keep the sharpened part of a blade from contacting the backspring. That click sound you should hear on closing is when the kick hits the backspring, not the blade hitting. ::shrug::

Thanks for the pictures Railsplitter. I haven’t seen that, or just wasn’t looking for it. Maybe it’s more commonly found on modern knives. It also makes sense that it would decrease as the blade is sharpened.

Ken
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:43 pm

The tiny divot in the edge of an unsharpened blade does not occur if the spring is a bit soft or if you hold the blade to control closing force. This must indicate that some flex happens with a strong spring, otherwise the kick would stop blade before contact with the spring pivot pin.
It is not anything to worry about. I see it as normal for a certain percentage of slip joints; i.e. not a defect.
kj

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Railsplitter » Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:44 pm

I do consider it a defect. The risk of blade rap should be taken into consideration by the manufacturer when designing the pattern. There are at least two manufacturers who agree and have done something about it.

Both A.G. Russell and LoinSteel incorporate a Striker Pin to prevent blade rap. The tang strikes the pin which sits well above the backspring eliminating the risk of blade rap. It's as if they said "Like good snap but hate blade rap? Here, let me fix that for ya".

A.G. Russell Doctor's knife. Note how far above the edge the tang is. Still no blade rap because the Striker Pin prevents it.
IMG_4711.JPG

IMG_4712.JPG

LionSteel Otnat. Same concept.
IMG_4462.JPG

IMG_4457.JPG

These are obviously knives of a more modern variety but it's nice to see that the problem was recognized and resolved by these two makers.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Sharpnshinyknives » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:31 am

Railsplitter wrote:I do consider it a defect. The risk of blade rap should be taken into consideration by the manufacturer when designing the pattern. There are at least two manufacturers who agree and have done something about it.

Both A.G. Russell and LoinSteel incorporate a Striker Pin to prevent blade rap. The tang strikes the pin which sits well above the backspring eliminating the risk of blade rap. It's as if they said "Like good snap but hate blade rap? Here, let me fix that for ya".

A.G. Russell Doctor's knife. Note how far above the edge the tang is. Still no blade rap because the Striker Pin prevents it.
IMG_4711.JPG
IMG_4712.JPG
LionSteel Otnat. Same concept.
IMG_4462.JPG
IMG_4457.JPG
These are obviously knives of a more modern variety but it's nice to see that the problem was recognized and resolved by these two makers.


RIck, I have that Dr.’s knife, I will have to look for that. Now I am going to be checking all my knives for that pin.
Given the pictures on that Queen knife above and what it has done to the edge, I would consider that a defect also. It seems to me that the manufacturer built this on sloppy tolerances. It shouldn’t be up to the end customer to have to reduce the blade edge to keep the edge pristine.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby KnifeSlinger#81 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:05 pm

Mumbleypeg wrote:(BTW, in over 60 years of collecting and examining pocket knives I’ve broken my share of nails, but I’ve yet to see my first example of “the divot in the edge from a powerful closing snap”. If such a thing exists it must not be very common.) ::shrug::

Ken


I've had my fair share of knives where the edge hits the backspring when you close it. A few because they snap so hard, the rest most likely because of improper tolerances. Two of those are 1965-69 cases. I sharpened one of them out, the other one I put a little shim under the kick. I'm at the point now that I can tell when the blade hits the spring by the sound, it has a more dull thud sound when it happens.

I like hard snap on knives when I can get it, the 7-8 range is perfect. They don't have to snap hard as long as they snap well and properly, but I have low tolerance for light snappers.
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Always looking for excellent to mint condition schrade cut co and walden knives. I really like stockman and cattle patterns.

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:23 pm

Just got off the phone with GEC. They said, "they were intentionally made with a very light pull due to previous complaints from collectors."
So I guess if you're looking for a "USER", buy a Case or a Rough Rider, as Great Eastern no longer produces knives for actual use, only display models for collectors.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:24 pm

The first lady I spoke with was very pleasant and when I explained what I wanted she said "I don't know but I'll find out". ::tu::
The next person was ready to fight when she got on the phone, and it was obvious right away from her tone, there would be no compromise on her part.
After she explained why GEC knives now have soft pulls, I said "So I guess that means there's nothing that can be done about it, that's just the way it is?" she said YES. ::uc::
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby Tsar Bomba » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:52 am

Personally I have no problem with the snap on my ebony NF or my cherrywood Tidioute. It's not gator-like such as most of my large Barlows but it is definitely snappier than some of my >1970s Schrade folding hunters and they out-snap every large knife I own by Gerber, Buck, or Parker. The slipjoint locks up fine and the open blade won't budge unless you rap the spine. Since I'm not making knife-torture web videos with Lynn Thompson using my GECs, I think I'll be OK. :wink:

I get the complaints, and I do somewhat appreciate the visceral sound and feel of a beartrap snap, but the 97 appears to be a perfectly functional knife for using as intended.

JMNSHO/YMMV/NRNE (no refunds no exchanges)/ETC. :mrgreen:
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:33 am

I agree with this: "the 97 appears to be a perfectly functional knife for using as intended."
How difficult would it be for GEC to do a run of 97's with a thicker spring ? All they would need to do is make some thicker springs, it seems to me.
If anyone here knows Bill Howard how about asking him if another run with a stouter spring might be considered. Could have it's own handle material so right away could be ID'd as "97 stout" and just the FFG which is better for a dedicated hunting knife than a saber grind.
kj
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby TravisB » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:34 pm

Mumbleypeg wrote:The #35 Churchill. ::td:: ::td::

Ken


I haven’t had much luck with 35 Churchill’s either, :(

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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby ken98k » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:37 pm

Tsar Bomba wrote:I get the complaints, and I do somewhat appreciate the visceral sound and feel of a beartrap snap, but the 97 appears to be a perfectly functional knife for using as intended.
JMNSHO/YMMV/NRNE (no refunds no exchanges)/ETC. :mrgreen:

You are correct, only because it is itended to sold to old men with weak fingers who place the knife in a display case where it is left, only to be fondled a few time a year.
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Re: Weak snap on a GEC?

Postby kootenay joe » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:05 pm

The 97 is a good user for those with experience in both knife use and field dressing. If you have not used a folding knife much or if you are not 'at home' field dressing a downed game animal, then the softer spring might mean you knock it to half stop. It is unlikely to go past the half stop.
The importance of experience with field dressing cannot be over-stated in this situation. Field dressing involves quite a few cuts, many are inside the body cavity with limited visibility. If you don't have all the moves 'down', then you could easily bump the blade spine and knock it to half stop.
A stronger spring would be better for those with less experience.
I hope to use my Tidioute 97 this Fall and if i do i will post how it went.
kj


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