Mammoth Ivory Knives on Ebay, Soon to be no more

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Ebay has pulled my fossilized mammoth tusk knife from listings 2 times now with the threat that they could ban my account from selling on eBay. I spent 22 minutes today and 30 minutes on the phone last week w/ them explaining to them what this handle material is and mainly got the eBay policy read to me from a screen.
The person I talked to today said that some unscrupulous people have sold real ivory as mammoth tusk and it has gotten them into trouble so they don’t allow any mammoth products to be sold either. They are reviewing all sales of mammoth tusks and molars and all are in danger of being pulled down.
I would encourage anyone reading this to protest to eBay. I don’t think that my lone voice is going to carry enough weight, but if they had lots of calls and emails, it might make an impact. You can Google their phone number.
AAPK and sites like this may soon be the only place you can buy sell or trade these knives.
SSk

[peanut740]

Several states have banned the sale of Mammoth ivory in the last few years.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

Well the things are already extinct so banning isn't going to save any precious animal lives that are clearly more important than human lives. Is there some actual legitimate reason for any of this regarding ebay and states banning it or is it just nonsense?

[Mumbleypeg]

Well the things are already extinct so banning isn't going to save any precious animal lives that are clearly more important than human lives. Is there some actual legitimate reason for any of this regarding ebay and states banning it or is it just nonsense?

Liberals need no reason. Nor do they care. To them it’s all about, and only about, control.

Ken

[kennedy knives]

Mark you are wasting your breath there is quite a few Ivory Knives on the bay . It has to do with the wording . They Band me for a month because I had a Case Tested Bone Handle Fixed Blade that they thought was Ivory . I Talked for 3 day to different people on there with no success most from foreign countries not the good old USA they all said the same thing like reading from a cue card . I had rather cut my ties and stay on AAPK .

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Well the things are already extinct so banning isn't going to save any precious animal lives that are clearly more important than human lives. Is there some actual legitimate reason for any of this regarding ebay and states banning it or is it just nonsense?

Liberals need no reason. Nor do they care. To them it’s all about, and only about, control.

Ken

Amen to that Ken.
We shouldn’t let nonsense policy like this go unchallenged. The PC crowd tyranizes the rest of us through nonsense like this. I saw Adam Carolla talking about this on a show recently, not the mammoth ivory but the PC crowd. He said first they said “if you smoke you have to do it in a seperate room”. So we picked up our steaks and moved to the smoking section. Then they said “you can’t smoke in the restaurant”. So we picked up our steak and went to the bar. Then they said “you can’t smoke in here”. So we left our plates and went outside. Then they said “you can’t smoke w/in 50 feet of the building. So we went to the park to smoke and they said “you can’t smoke here either.”
This is how it works. These people will not stop. I saw this coming when they shamed every restaurant and cookie maker into taking away trans fats.
The list just keeps on getting longer. Like Ken said it’s all about control.
SSk

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Mark you are wasting your breath there is quite a few Ivory Knives on the bay . It has to do with the wording . They Band me for a month because I had a Case Tested Bone Handle Fixed Blade that they thought was Ivory . I Talked for 3 day to different people on there with no success most from foreign countries not the good old USA they all said the same thing like reading from a cue card . I had rather cut my ties and stay on AAPK .

Gary, I hear you. But I don’t go quietly.
Today I started out w/ the young man on the other end by saying to him “I need you to promise me before I speak that you will not read me what is on your screen and you will actually listen to me.” So we were able to have a conversation. But he isn’t the decision maker.
The first time I had an issue was a year ago. They delisted an elephant toe knife that I had listed. I had to ask for a supervisor to get them to back down on that one. But I was able to get them to change the algorithm so it didn’t ban my elephant toe knife.
Sometimes it’s just a glitch in the algorithm. This time I think it’s more than that, that’s why it’s going to take pressure to stop this.
I did change the wording and tried a different way. I changed it again and have it listed now as fossil handle, which I see a lot of sellers using. I expect that tomorrow I will get another email and a ban. What’s odd is that after I called the first time, they relisted it the next day. They left it up for 3 days and delisted it again last night. I agree about cutting ties. I’m real close to that myself.
Mark

[orvet]

Well the things are already extinct so banning isn't going to save any precious animal lives that are clearly more important than human lives. Is there some actual legitimate reason for any of this regarding ebay and states banning it or is it just nonsense?

Liberals need no reason. Nor do they care. To them it’s all about, and only about, control.

Ken

Ken is right.
They believe that banning something which makes them feel better about themselves gives them the moral high ground. Facts in their opinion are totally irrelevant. I believe this poster below makes incredibly astute and accurate observations about the time in which we live and our postmodern society.
It is more important to feel like you're morally right then to actually be right!
Thomas Sowell points out the futility of trying to reason with such a person who is, "enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."

It is my opinion that CS Lewis understood, if not foresaw the Progressive movement.
He describes its results in the quote below. As I recall the book was written in the 1950s, perhaps even in the 1940s.

[Sharpnshinyknives]

Well the things are already extinct so banning isn't going to save any precious animal lives that are clearly more important than human lives. Is there some actual legitimate reason for any of this regarding ebay and states banning it or is it just nonsense?

Liberals need no reason. Nor do they care. To them it’s all about, and only about, control.

Ken

Ken is right.
They believe that banning something which makes them feel better about themselves gives them the moral high ground. Facts in their opinion are totally irrelevant. I believe this poster below makes incredibly astute and accurate observations about the time in which we live and our postmodern society.
It is more important to feel like you're morally right then to actually be right!
Thomas Sowell points out the futility of trying to reason with such a person who is, "enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."

AOC & morality.jpg


It is my opinion that CS Lewis understood, if not foresaw the Progressive movement.
He describes its results in the quote below. As I recall the book was written in the 1950s, perhaps even in the 1940s.

CS Lewis quote.JPG

Dale, Bravo! You nailed it. CS Lewis is one of the authors that early in my life shaped my beliefs. He was brilliant and that is an amazing quote.
The quote from the recently anointed superstar in the PC war is disturbing. Reminds me of Cory Booker in the Kavanaugh hearings asking the judge if he believed Ms Ford was speaking “her truth”. What ever happened to “the truth”?
SSk

[Greenman]

Liberals need no reason. Nor do they care. To them it’s all about, and only about, control.

Ken

Ken is right.
They believe that banning something which makes them feel better about themselves gives them the moral high ground. Facts in their opinion are totally irrelevant. I believe this poster below makes incredibly astute and accurate observations about the time in which we live and our postmodern society.
It is more important to feel like you're morally right then to actually be right!
Thomas Sowell points out the futility of trying to reason with such a person who is, "enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance."

AOC & morality.jpg


It is my opinion that CS Lewis understood, if not foresaw the Progressive movement.
He describes its results in the quote below. As I recall the book was written in the 1950s, perhaps even in the 1940s.

CS Lewis quote.JPG

Dale, Bravo! You nailed it. CS Lewis is one of the authors that early in my life shaped my beliefs. He was brilliant and that is an amazing quote.
The quote from the recently anointed superstar in the PC war is disturbing. Reminds me of Cory Booker in the Kavanaugh hearings asking the judge if he believed Ms Ford was speaking “her truth”. What ever happened to “the truth”?
SSk

The C. S. Lewis quotation could just as easily be seen as an indictment of the religious right.
Moral tyranny is moral tyranny, whether it be perpetrated by the left or by the right!

[orvet]

The C. S. Lewis quotation could just as easily be seen as an indictment of the religious right.
Moral tyranny is moral tyranny, whether it be perpetrated by the left or by the right!

I believe that was exactly CS Lewis' point. "Omnipotent moral busybodies" end up perpetrating tyrannies that are… "Sincerely exercised for the good of its victims." I believe Lewis'use of the word tyranny is metaphorical at best.
Tyranny is by definition "cruel and oppressive government or rule."

Given the definition, courtesy of Google, how could the religious right, the religious left or the religious middle perpetrate tyranny on people?
How could the religious right perpetrate "cruel and oppressive government or rule?"
Religious groups don't normally have police forces and armies, at least not in this country, to enforce their will on the people. Governments by their very nature have those tools at their disposal whether they are benign or tyrannical.

When you have the power at your disposal already, it's a short distance from benign to tyrannical.
But a religious group with no Armed Forces would have a very difficult time forcing their will upon the American people, simply because they do not have the power.

I am personally far more concerned about a politician, or a group of politicians who feel that their "moral high ground" is more important than facts or their opponents rights or my rights. They may eventually have the force at their disposal to be able to inflict their will, their "moral high ground" on the people. This would be true tyranny. The wagging fingers and shaking heads of a few people on the religious right to disapprove of something I believe or something that I do is really not tyranny, and if I ignore it it has no effect on me.

[KnifeSlinger#81]

It's funny that the people who believe "it's better to be morally right than factually correct" are oftentimes not morally right, through ignorance of the facts.

[kootenay joe]

Elephants are being shot and killed for their tusks at an alarming rate. If it continues they could be extinct except for zoos in just a few years. The idea of banning ivory is an attempt to save the elephants. Much of mammoth ivory looks like elephant ivory. It takes a magnifying glass and a fair bit of experience to differentiate the two. This is why mammoth is also being banned.
I collect knives with ivory or mammoth handles. Most in my collection are ivory and made 100 or more years ago. I will continue to collect knives with ivory or mammoth handles even though they likely will become harder to find and maybe harder to sell.
Mammoth ivory will continue to be available. Banning has never eradicated an item. The 'issue' i see is that manufacturers like GEC will not be able to use mammoth because they need to advertise to sell the knives.
kj

[orvet]

Elephants are being shot and killed for their tusks at an alarming rate. If it continues they could be extinct except for zoos in just a few years. The idea of banning ivory is an attempt to save the elephants. Much of mammoth ivory looks like elephant ivory. It takes a magnifying glass and a fair bit of experience to differentiate the two. This is why mammoth is also being banned.

It is possible then, from what you've just said, that with a little effort (a magnifying glass) and some training we can differentiate between elephant ivory and mammoth ivory.
I guess my question becomes, "Are we okay with allowing the government to tell us we can't have things made of ivory because they are too inefficient/lazy/incompetent to train their agents to distinguish between a freshly taken elephant task and one from a 10,000 years old mammoth?"

Most mammoth ivory that I have seen has at least some mineralization in the ivory itself. It is part of the fossilization process and it takes a very long time. It is what gives mammoth ivory the unique color (and great value) that we prize so highly in our knife handles.
The most recent figures I saw, I believe it was for last year, says there was almost no illegal elephant ivory coming into the US. I would assume Canada is fairly close to the US in that number. I think banning mammoth ivory is a feel-good, knee-jerk reaction by politicians and political activists, (like the switchblade ban of 1958). By banning the use of 10,000-year-old mammoth ivory they somehow feel they have the moral high ground. After all, "It's more important to be morally right then factually correct," she said.
Never mind that the importation of elephant ivory into the US is for all practical purposes, nonexistent. Their ban allows them to feel morally superior to those of us who disagree with them. For them feeling morally right is more important to them than facts, even more important than the rights of other citizens.

This is one man's opinion, your mileage may vary.

[peanut740]

Well put Dale in both posts!

[kootenay joe]

Almost all of the illegally harvested ivory tusks go to China. Does any of this make it's way into North America as cut pieces ? I don't know but i do know that custom knife makers have no trouble getting pieces of ivory. Perhaps there was a huge stockpile from before the ban ?
Mammoth ivory is not a fossil. A fossil is a rock and would be very hard to work with. Mammoth ivory has been preserved in soil conditions that prevent breakdown. The colors we like are deposits of minerals deposited by water trickling through. Often only the outer part of a mammoth tusk gets stained by minerals and the part under the surface remains unchanged.
It actually is difficult to be 100% certain with a magnifying glass until a person has a lot of experience. Customs could train a few 'specialists' to differentiate ivory from mammoth but it is not something you could expect from all Customs agents.
Here are 5 knives. Are they ivory or mammoth ?
kj

[kootenay joe]

I was hoping for numerous replies stating what the handle material is on each of these 5 knives. If you are unsure, make an educated guess. "Educated" by knives you have owned or ones you have seen online.
kj

[Sharpnshinyknives]

I was hoping for numerous replies stating what the handle material is on each of these 5 knives. If you are unsure, make an educated guess. "Educated" by knives you have owned or ones you have seen online.
kj

I think the only one that is ivory is the fourth one down, I think all the rest are mammoth. I have never seen ivory that looked anything like all the others. All the ivory knives that I have seen are smooth creamy white, but honestly I haven’t handled very many ivory knives.
I think a person would have difficulty selling the new “not ivory” synthetic handle material. Ebay would flag that for sure. Which goes to my point about how they are policing this, it’s an algorithm that sends it to someone who really doesn’t know or understand the difference.
SSk

[RalphAlsip]

Assuming the Northwoods Canoe is #1 and the equal end pattern on the bottom is #5, then my guess is that #1 & #2 are mammoth and all the rest are ivory.

[kootenay joe]

Thanks for posting. I would like a few more to post their answers before i reveal the identities.
kj

[Montanaman]

I would guess #5 is the only elephant ivory.

[bladebuddy]

Joe, I’m willing to bet that all five of your knives are handled in mammoth ivory. Very knice. Steve B.

[robbobus]

1,2,3 mammoth
4,5 elephant

[kootenay joe]

Thanks guys. All good guesses but mammoth and ivory can be hard to differentiate as is shown by your replies.
Top down:
# 1 elephant
#2 elephant
#3 mammoth
#4 mammoth !
#5 elephant

Outer part of elephant tusk can be stained & cracked and thus look like mammoth.
Inner part of mammoth is usually not stained and so can look like elephant ivory.
kj

[kootenay joe]

Montanaman has the highest score, 3 correct = 60%
The rest all get a failing grade !
kj