FAKE BULLDOG

[Hukk]

Fake or lately manufactured Bulldog

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Bulldog-Stag-T ... dZViewItem

Lets run down a few reasons.

Wrong sheild for 1984 I'll post a picture of real on the right and recent manufacture with European Stag rather than Sambar
No 440C in 1984 only stainless was Cowboy's pet series
No Jim Parker with Bulldog in 1984
I think he means sowbelly - not stockman
Maybe he was thinking Serpentine Stockman
Has European Stag - Not Sambar
These aren't rare, must be 1000 out there only 400 of the TRUE FIRST GENERATION and I haven't seen those for a while. More fakes than true.

Everything I put on this little list can be found in Parker's books, including the pictures. You can also see when Jim Parker used real (TRUE) first generations in his books and changed to the cobbled. Pictures worth a 1000 words. Everything I'm saying is documented in Parker's own books!

Click on the picture and compare the stag - easy to see when they are side by side The ones on the left appeared late in the 90's. The knives on the right are TRUE 1984 releases.

Easiest to tell, look at the shields, those on the left belong on celuloid NOT stag!

[BIGHEAD]

Double stamp on back of blade also!

[knifeswapper]

It would be difficult for someone not familar with the specifics of Bulldog to decipher an actual knife due to the way they were made. This is one of the main reasons that collectibility has never really taken off for this brand.

He just guessed on the steel, because the stamping shows it correctly as carbon. Jim Parker really was involved with this knife as it is 2nd generation, so he was actually right on that issue. Double stamping is a cutler mistake, not a sign of counterfeit.

But production and age are "optimistic".

[Hukk]

Yes, this has a tobacco leaf - but the wrong one for first generation Stag, correct for first generation celluloid. However the second generation Jim Parker worked with are supposed to have an acorn shield, not a tobacco leaf. That's true for all of the 3 5/8 tobacco king sowbellies. There are a lot of knives that are cobbled, there are some 3 blade trappers with glued pins - First generation did not have that glue, but there are a bunch of those knives with European stag. Click on that picture and count the serrtions in the pull, you should notice a difference that should not be there.

[olderdogs1]

Hukk is 100% right on all counts. The sad part of this whole thing is that these later knives were actually produced by Bulldog at the Bulldog factory. Actually pretty easy to tell with the side to side pictures.
Tom

[jljr1944]

Parker himself admitted that apxy 7000 knives were made around 1991 using older 1st generation blades. He claimed in all cases the shield and handle material was changed so that owners of 1st generatioin knives would know the difference. It is fairly easy to tell the difference between the true 1st generation stag and the knives made in 1991 and later. The knives Hukk shows in his picture,in my opinion,are some of the knives Parker made around 1991. But that is just my opinion. The knives on the right are definately 1st generation knives.

[Hukk]

Yes, on the 1991 knife he had an acorn used as a shield on the 3-5/8 inch sowbelly or serpentine stockman and this is well documented. If you ever look in a Pocket Knife Traders Guide vol. 3 you will even see a picture on page102. These are knives BKC 282 A, BKC 282 B, BKC 282 C, and BKC 282 D. However more knives started showing up in the late 1990's and not all were Gronauer vault knives. This does not affect the just the Tobacco Kings but many other knives as well, some stockman knives and trappers, the 3 bladed trapper as well. There is a lot more if one really looks.

The knives on the left are as olderdogs1 has said are FACTORY fakes of the BKC 279, BKC 280, AND BKC 281 that were factory made. If you look close enough you will see different shields, different pulls and Euroopean stag not Sambar and certainly not first OR second generation knives. There are many more models with these charactoristic errors.

If you look at volume 3 you will see that the pictures in the book are of those on the right. If you look at volumes 7 and 8 they have pictures of the FAKES! That's right, they changed pictures in the books from the real knives to the newly made fakes.

Side by side comparison of real vs. ?

[jljr1944]

You are right Hukk there are a lot of the Bulldong knives that are being passed off as 1st generation knives. Where my disagrement comes in with some people is that I believe Parker was aware of what was going on with these Bulldogs. I don't call them Factory fakes. I believe they are knives that Parker had made from left over parts after he bought Bulldog. In any event there are thousands of knives that are confusing to anyone who is not familiar with The Bulldong brand and even confusing to some who are familiar. I own 9 sets of the matched set Gunstock series but have gotten rid of all my other Bulldogs.

[Hukk]

I agree, and I would not be surprised if they make a few every year. I see some stores on ebay that seem to have "new 1984 Knives" every year. For instance I have some of my favorite frame the 3 3/8. All say S&D CUT. CO. except I do have one with European stag AND it's my only Kentucky Derby that has Bulldog Brand on the tang. ALL the other knives have S&D CUT. CO.

Could this be that Parker only bought the rights to Bulldog Brand and NOT S&D CUT. CO.?

[jljr1944]

I have wondered the same thing about the S&D cutlery brand. Parkers son might have the answer to that.

[Hukk]

They don't like me to much for posting these pictures. Ole Ed even joined just to slander me, called me names and challenged me to phone him. Girl Talk? Anyhow, they are doing what they always do, I guess. However he was not willing to touch any question regarding these knives. I do however like some of their patterns but many are to small and have that Rough Rider look with that black etch. Give me those knives with real abalone all are 100%. Most everyone I know wants that frosted etch back even if it is $1.00 per knife.

[peterforce]

its funny. this has been a knife i have been shopping lately. this exact one and same year in celluiod.{is that now you spell that?somebody} anyway i know very little but i was comparing this guys intentional crappy pics. if you look at previous auctions of his the pics are better.besides the fact that he has smartened up and keeps his bidders history private.
anway the 2 things i feel like i see in this knife that dont look right when compared to others that look i have been told are real. one. the stag itself just looks out of touch with this knife.
two. the shield is different then the shield on my other pics. thats a definite. i wouldnt bet money that the knife is a complete fake becasue i dont know that much.but i would take a small wager on the fact that something is funky with that shield.over and out.