Pocket Worn Elk

[Railsplitter]

I see all kinds of pics of pocket worn bone and deer stag but I don't recall ever seeing a single photo of pocket worn elk stag. I don't even have a pic that I can post because the few elk knives I have are not worn.

Maybe elk has only been recently used for knife handles but I can't imagine that being the case.

There has to be some pocket worn elk handled knives out there somewhere. Anybody got one? If so, I'd love to see some pics.

[kootenay joe]

Rick as for production knives i think elk handles are a recent introduction. Likely there are a few older custom knives with elk handles. I have read that elk antler is softer then deer antler and somehow does not make for as good a handles as deer stag. Maybe one of the knife customizers will comment on this.
kj

[Railsplitter]

Rick as for production knives i think elk handles are a recent introduction. Likely there are a few older custom knives with elk handles. I have read that elk antler is softer then deer antler and somehow does not make for as good a handles as deer stag. Maybe one of the knife customizers will comment on this.
kj

Thanks Roland. I considered that elk handles might be a recent introduction but when I thought about it, I thought "no way, can't be". You may very well be right though.

That would certainly explain why I've never seen any pics of pocket worn elk handles. I wonder why knife makers waited so long to start using it. Surely, elk have been around for a long time.

[kootenay joe]

there have been custom fixed blade makers from 'the beginning', but custom folding knives began in late 1960's, early 1970's, so relatively recently. Custom knife makers use the handle material their customers want. As elk has not been used traditionally, likely very few customers requested elk handles.
Would be good if a knife maker commented on elk antler as a handle material.
I think the drawback is that the exterior surface is shallow so in getting handle to fit a lot of the underlying white tends to show at the ends.
kj

[tongueriver]

My impression is that only Sambar stag from Asia is the best material and all other deer family antlers fall short for the purpose. Rudy Ruana always used elk in his handles, as small inserts. That continues to this day, but only a certain part of the antler, near the skull, is appropriate. He lived and worked in Montana where elk antlers were the material at hand; he even took them in trade for his knives. His descendants continue this tradition. A lot of new handle materials are being sold as a function of what I call 'marketing.'

[kootenay joe]

In a Ruana FB that has been used ++, do you see any changes in the elk slab inserts ?
kj

[kootenay joe]

Do you ever think about elk antlers ? Mature bulls have 6 or more points per side, it's a big rack and antler like bone requires a lot of calcium, a huge amount for big antlers. And the bull elk grow 2 big antlers every year. Nature usually is not so wasteful, putting on all that antler growth only to have it fall off in Spring and soon after the bosses start growing again. (boss = base of antler on skull where grow occurs).
There are elk on my place right now. With luck i will find a rack or 2 in late April, early May.
kj

[mrwatch]

I was told by a local man that raise Elk that the velvet is collected and used in Pharmaceuticals.

[kootenay joe]

Used in Asian 'tonics' to "help" with sexual problems, much like ground up rhino horn, bear gall bladder, etc.
kj

[jmh58]

That would be a really NICE handle!! PWE!!!
John

[orvet]

There are a few factors to consider in this discussion.

#1- Part of what drives the use of alternative antler sources away from sambar stag is the government of India. They keep tight controls on the supply of sambar stag in order to keep the price high. I have even heard from one importer that they have banned all further exports and will not ever export sambar stag again. But, my understanding is this has happened before but they always relent when the price gets high enough and export it again.

#2- Elk antler it's not as thick as sambar stag. The hard outer layer on Elk antler is much thinner than sambar stag which is why I believe factories have avoided elk antler before now. It requires much more careful cutting then sambar stag and probably has a higher percentage waste. There may be a perception that elk antler is softer, but I don't think it is soft enough to make a huge difference when used for knife handles.

#3- We have the technology today to harden almost anything to make it suitable for knife handles. If there is a problem with elk antler being too soft, it can easily be hardened today's stabilizing technology. I have seen knife handles made from corncobs and cholla cactus that have been stabilized, elk antler should not be an issue. I have used some stabilized elk antler and it's quite pretty.

I think knife companies are looking at alternate sources for handle material because the market demands it for one reason. Look how many variations there are in bone handle material and some people collect all the variations produced. I definitely believe companies look for different types of handle material to satisfy the collector market.
The threat of losing any access to sambar stag which is been so popular for so many years would of course move manufacturers to look for alternate sources for stag material.

I'm sure there are other factors also involved in the use of elk antler, some of them may be state or local laws that prohibit the sale of parts of game animals. There are many different things that can affect the quality of the antler such as health of the animal, the diet of the animal and the minerals in the diet.
I know that the sambar stag exists in the other countries outside of India. I believe I saw online, guided hunts offered for sandbar stag hunts in New Zealand. I don't know why they are not used in the knife industry, perhaps the local laws will allow it or perhaps it is is one importer told me, the quality of the sandbar stag from India is far superior to sandbar stag from anywhere else in the world because of the minerals and micronutrients in the diet of the sambar stag raised in India.

If what my source told me is true, that the Indian government is just playing with the price of sandbar stag and banning the export until the price gets high enough, then the introduction of elk antler as a alternative to sandbar stag may bring down the price stag in the long run. As someone pointed out in an earlier post elk antlers are much larger than the antlers of the sandbar stag. If it becomes common practice to stabilize elk antler then almost the entire antler could potentially be used for knife handles. That would be a very large source of stag and direct competition with the sandbar stag producers in India. The popularization of elk antler and other antler sources may in the long run make sambar stag less expensive.

[Railsplitter]

Excellent summary, Dale. Thank you for taking the time to write it. This has turned out to be an interesting topic. I for one, have learned a lot.

[kootenay joe]

If Sambar deer could be imported into North America they could be 'ranched' for their yearly antler drops. Bet it would be profitable and feed with necessary minerals & micro-nutrients is available everywhere.
kj

[tongueriver]

When the men at Ruana use elk slabs, they hammer them into the dovetailed aluminum handles with a hammer; it is painful to watch, but the antler pieces are just fine. There is a film on this. Dale is certainly right about the ability nowadays to stabilize any kind of formerly inadequate material. Pine cones? Who knew? Nothing will ever replace top grade Sambar (not Sand Bar lol) when it is gnarly and dense. It is a punishable offense to remove skulls or any part of the spinal column of any game animal into or out of the border of the state of Wyoming. There are one or more neurological diseases that can be carried in spinal cord or brain tissue that is devastating to many ungulates. Antlers can be moved thus and even on a clean piece of skull, but not when attached to a whole skull. Meanwhile, if you have any 'fresh' elk antler, don't throw it out into the yard in a decorative manner; keep it under cover for it may be valuable trading stock for knives, etc. There was a question about how elk holds up after a few decades. I have seen many examples of Ruana knives that date back into the 1940s, and the ones that have been treated harshly show some yellowing and tiny cracking all over reminiscent of the bottom of a dried up pond, but not worse than any bone or other stag. Here is a pic of one side of the handle from a 1950s Ruana that was a user, not put away as a collectible.

[Railsplitter]

Awesome, Cal. Thanks for the pic!

[knife7knut]

I got this folder awhile back from a friend of mine who had it re-handled in what he said was elk antler. Don't know if it is or not(no reason to doubt him)but they are sure pretty.
EDIT: Sorry;posted the wrong pics;here are the correct ones.

[Gunsil]

I do realize that this is a pocket knife forum and that most here collect pocket knives that are less than a hundred years old. Regarding elk horn for handles, some of our best and most well known knife makers from the golden age of San Francisco made bowie and hunting knives used elk horn scales on their fine knives. Will&Finck and M Price as well as others made a lot of knives meant for heavy camp and hunting use and they chose elk for scales. This may well be due to the fact that elk was a locally available source, but it seems to have worked well. I think sambar stag is a stronger type of material and can be had with better "figuring" or "gnarl" than other types of horn material and to me is preferable to elk for modern use. But historically speaking the elk has served well.

[orvet]

Thanks for filling in more of the details Cal. I was not aware of the diseases in the spinal cord, but I have not hunted across state lines before either.
That Ruwana is a nice-looking old piece. I was also not aware that they hammered the pieces of antler into the handle on a Ruwana knife.

[kootenay joe]

Cal, the Ruana you show is a good example of why elk is not the preferred handle material: only the center area shows the stag surface, and the rest, about 60% ? is the underlying white part of the antler. People want more bark, less white.
And k7k, hard to say if handles on your knife are elk antler or something else.
kj

[Old Hunter]

Current Buck Knife production (delivered in December 2018) with elk slabs for handles. One knife is moderately figured, the other pretty smooth. Some examples I saw were as knarly as Sambar, most not so. Feels pretty hard to the touch, about the same as Sambar, but not as hard as bone. OH

[kootenay joe]

Here is a 2 blade 4 1/4" 'Trapper' made for me by Rusty Preston, about 10 years ago, just before his work was in demand and became 'expensive'.
The handle pieces are elk antler. The 'spine shot' shows that they are fairly thin, which is how they should be.
kj

[muskratt]

Here is a 2 blade 4 1/4" 'Trapper' made for me by Rusty Preston, about 10 years ago, just before his work was in demand and became 'expensive'.
The handle pieces are elk antler. The 'spine shot' shows that they are fairly thin, which is how they should be.
kj

That is one nice looking knife, great handles and file work!