Fulton Pruner

[FRJ]

I got this Hawkbill pruner recently from an auction and the seller claimed it was associated with Robeson.

Goin's lists five Fultons including a USA, a Germany and a Sheffield.
Also listed is a Fulton Cutlery Rochester NY, which is, I assume, the association with Robeson.
The last listing is a Fulton Cutlery Co. c 1919 Canal Fulton, Ohio.
I am inclined to think this last stamp is proper for the knife.

Is anyone familiar with this stamp?

Thanks for looking.

Funny thing, as I was about ready to submit this I thought I would double check that there was nothing on the pile side tang and upon looking there was obviously no stamp. However, just a glint of light revealed that there was a stamp on that side.
Numbers I am sure. Including 504 or 564. Very interesting. Maybe it is related to Robeson. - - - - HELP!!

[RobesonsRme.com]

Robeson's pattern number for that knife would have been 211007.

I generally assume a knife marked F. C. CO. to be a Fulton Cutlery Company product and a Robeson knife that has had its original stamp ground off and the Fulton abbreviation stamp added. Most of the time, one can discern some slight remnant of the original stamp, which most often, given the time period Goins assigns to the F. C. CO. stamp, circa 1920 - 1930, to have been ROBESON / ShurEdge / ROCHESTER or ROBESON / ShurEdge / ROCHESTER, N. Y..

Usually, the portion of the original stamp one can see is the word ROCHESTER, in whole or in part.

I have never seen a F. C. CO./ ROCHESTER stamped knife as described by John Goins on page 96 of his book. I suspect what he actually encountered was a knife that the word ROCHESTER, from the original stamp was almost completely intact, although it would have been different from the F. C. CO. and not stamped as deeply.

Also, I have never seen an F. C. CO. marked knife with a pattern number or any portion of a pattern number still on the knife. If they sought to remove their name/logo from the front of the blade, I assume they removed the pattern number from the back.

I cannot explain the series of numbers you describe being on your knife. They are not consistent with this pattern from Robeson.

Robeson did make a Maize pattern that was similar to this, using the same frame. It's number was different, of course, but I cannot produce it right now.

Here is a Robeson 211007. However, this is a later, post WWII knife and not from the 1920 - 1930 time frame.

Charlie

[btrwtr]

Charlie my experience with Fulton knives is as you described. The knives I've owned marked F.C.C. were every bit Robeson knives with the Robeson stamp ground off and remnants of the stamp left on the tangs. There was no reason to believe the knives were production seconds. I had a large 4 1/4" cigar jack with beautifully jigged brown bone handles that was a class knife. Unfortunately the F.C.C. stamp in conjunction with the ground off Robeson Shuredge is not a big selling point.

[kootenay joe]

I have never heard of this. So, F. C. CO. aka Fulton Cutlery Company, purchased new Robeson knives and then re-branded them and sold these knives at a profit ? Presumably Robeson was aware. Did they try to stop Fulton from re-selling their knives ? Were buyers aware that Fulton Cutlery Company was re-selling Robeson knives ? Was this practice within the law ?
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

Wayne, I've never seen an F. C. CO. / Robeson knife that appeared to be a factory second. In fact, some have been exquisite knives, though most are the generally accepted, "working man's" knives.

Robeson collectors, like me, will obtain one or two examples of Robeson made contract knives such as F. C. CO., GLOBE, OVB, KA-BAR, etc, but once we have representative examples, we are done, unless something really exceptional shows up.

So, yeah, the market for Fultons with a ground away Robeson stamp is low. I suspect they would make great EDC's. One gets 1920-1930 Robeson quality without having to pay up for it.

Here are photos of an F. C. CO. stamped knife sold on Ebay a few years ago. I'm quite sure I would have bid on this, but somebody else got it.

KJ; the assumption has always been that it was a straight-up deal. Robeson altered the knives for Fulton. I do not know of any published company records that prove that, however.

Charlie Noyes

[kootenay joe]

Quote: "Robeson altered the knives for Fulton"
To my limited knife knowledge this is not the usual way of marking contract knives. Usually a stamping die is made to mark blades with the name, etc. requested by the buyer and then new unmarked blades are hot stamped. Robeson must have had some reason for not marking these the usual way.
kj

[FRJ]

Thank you guys for your comments.

As to the numbers, I believe I can see part of the pattern number that Charlie provided.
Thank you, Charlie. I appreciate the information and the pictures, as do others who find the
Fulton/Robeson connection interesting.

[wlf]

Nice to have that example Joe.
I had never heard of this either Roland.

I believe Wayne and Charlie , but I think we all agree,it’s very weird.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Equally weird are the WWII Stevenson four bladed, all metal utility knives. The first ones had a Robeson cap-lifter/can-opener and stubby screw-driver blades.

Who was Stevenson? Did Robeson make the knives or just supply the parts?

The later knives had the mandated MIL-K blades including the Colonial can-opener.

The knives were marked only on the bails.

Charlie

[FRJ]

More interesting cutlery history.
Thank you, Charlie, for that information. It's all new to me.
I'm glad we have it here for research.

I'd like to think of these early cutlers interactions as unusual instead of weird.

[Miller Bro's]

I think they were factory seconds. Keep in mind what they called a factory second in 1919 and what we would consider a factory second are two very different things. In 1914 it was reported that the Robeson Cutlery Co. manufactured in excess of 1,500,000 knives a year. Given that number you can imagine how many were factory seconds and were not good enough to be sold with the Robeson name on it.

No factory in their right mind would have employees grinding off tang stamps and re-stamping them with a client's name, it's not efficient, profitable or very professional looking. Can you imagine placing an order for knives and when they arrived you opened the blade and the tang was obviously ground down and restamped with your company name on it?

Just my opinion your milage may vary.

[kootenay joe]

D., are you saying standards were higher in 1919 than now ? i.e.some knives that would now pass inspection would have been declared a second in 1919 ? Which in turn would mean that there were many 'seconds' in the 1919 era.
This is why knife collecting is so enjoyable. I have been at it for decades and here is a topic completely new to me. It never gets boring, always something new pops up. Yeah knife collecting !
kj

[RobesonsRme.com]

My stated opinion above has always been based on the reporting of others. I don't think I've ever given it much rational personal thought.

Now, Dimitri has gone and interjected some logic into the conversation and it makes perfect sense.

So, factory seconds they were.

Charlie

[LongBlade]

Very interesting... indeed the info Dimitri provided puts a different spin on it ... so based on the knives being factory seconds was there a Fulton shop which bought factory seconds from Robeson and subsequently ground off the Robeson stamp and finally restamped them with the Fulton tang stamp for sale? Not sure what would have been paid for a factory second but certainly whoever Fulton was probably had very little overhead to run the business in terms of employees ... just speculating but interesting business model...

[kootenay joe]

Fulton might have had a contract to buy all seconds. As long as the Robeson name was to be removed, it would have provided Robeson an easy way to sell the seconds.
kj

[edge213]

This is from "Robeson Collectables and Rarities" by Tom Kalcevic.
I took a picture of the page with my tablet that is the reason for the poor quality. If can't read let me know and I will summarize.

[Miller Bro's]

Thanks for posting that David, I don't have that book, but those were my thoughts exactly

[FRJ]

Fillmore, Cutlery,; That is a nice piece of information, David. Thank you.

[edge213]

Your welcome fellas.
The Fillmore Cutlery makes more sense to me. But I'm am in no way an expert on this subject.
I'm curious as to what Mr. Noyes has to say.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Millard imported knives late in the 19th century, marked Fillmore, as Tom Kalcevic noted.

He dates the stamp, 1891 to 1895, which is when Millard Robeson started having his knives made in Camillus, NY, by the Sherwood/Bingham cutlery factory, in order to avoid the tariffs imposed in 1891. He eventually took that company over and when he moved to Perry, N.Y., he sold it to the Kastor brothers.

I have one. They are hard to come by. I'd have to look at the knife, but I'm pretty sure it's German.

I do, however, think what Tom wrote beneath that photo is pure speculation on his part.

Charlie

[btrwtr]

Good information David. I don't have that book either. I believe that the Fillmore association for the knives marked F.C.Co. is speculation but that it is good and plausible speculation.

I still have a hard time based on my experience with this F.C. Co. stamp in believing these knives were factory seconds. The few I've seen and owned showed no indication of being a second with the exception of the Robeson stamp being ground off the blades. At any rate the manor in which these knives were ground off and re-stamped is unusual and perplexing at best. It would be great to have a definite answer but this may just be one of many such cutlery topics destined to be speculation at best.

Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of the few F.C.Co. knives I've owned. Charlie that knife you posted is gorgeous.

Here is a picture of an old Robeson razor I have marked M.F. (Millard Fillmore) Robeson.

[RobesonsRme.com]

I have a razor exactly like that one.

I think they date prior to 1891.

That was when Robeson was operating out of his home.

Charlie