Parker & Field (Prussia) Serpentine Whittler

[LongBlade]

Charlie - “Bonne Courage” ...

Lyle - Nice sacrifice for the cause - hope you don’t cringe when you see photos of Charlie hitting it with a hammer ...

[JAMESC41001]

Found a pic of a horn press

[kootenay joe]

Wow ! This is hard evidence that horn can be and has been, treated to have a pattern on the surface.
Great addition to this thread James !
kj

[LongBlade]

Nice addition Jay ... I wondered what a horn press would look like - basically a clamp and I would assume the mold would fit within it and being tightened down...

[Mason]

There is plenty of information and examples for pressed horn in a great variety of items.
Try to find anything on pressed stag, other than just the name.
"Pressed Stag" was used as a name in the cutlery industry, as was "Perfect Stag", "Imitation Stag", and "Improved Stag".
These were all meant as trade names and not a descriptive term like "Pressed Horn" was.
It is possible that some cutlery manufacturers used the term "Pressed Stag" for what was actually "Pressed Horn".

[JAMESC41001]

I recently read that there is a US Patent for pressed stag dated 1870 but have not had time to try and verify this. The process and the need were mostly done for pure economic reasons. Although many Sheffield exhibition knives discribe there knives as having “exhibition grade stag” for their handles. My understanding is not only were the choice sections used but that particular species and supply were deminishing so this may be an additional reason to try and replicate that.

[JAMESC41001]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2689400A/en
Here is a link to a press for making stag knife handles.

[upnorth]

So, my project to take a close look at pressed material is inching along!
Here are some of the materials I have gathered to date; from the top:
- Jigged bone slab from GEC. I am looking for an undyed piece.
- Sambar stag slab, intended for a knife handle
- Checkered horn handles, bug-eaten, removed from a sportsman's knife
- the sacrificial knife that Lyle donated (Thanks, Lyle!!)
- Gunstock with pressed handles, pictured previously above.
- A knife handled in Red Deer antler.
(This Red deer, introduced and harvested in New Zealand, has a similar appearance to pressed stag!)

[wlf]

We anxiously await.

[Mason]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2689400A/en
Here is a link to a press for making stag knife handles.

That patent is for pressing thin sheet metal handles, NOT for pressing genuine stag.

[LongBlade]

So, my project to take a close look at pressed material is inching along!
Here are some of the materials I have gathered to date; from the top:
- Jigged bone slab from GEC. I am looking for an undyed piece.
- Sambar stag slab, intended for a knife handle
- Checkered horn handles, bug-eaten, removed from a sportsman's knife
- the sacrificial knife that Lyle donated (Thanks, Lyle!!)
- Gunstock with pressed handles, pictured previously above.
- A knife handled in Red Deer antler.
(This Red deer, introduced and harvested in New Zealand, has a similar appearance to pressed stag!)

Looks like your all set for action Charlie .. The suspense is building ...

[JAMESC41001]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2689400A/en
Here is a link to a press for making stag knife handles.

That patent is for pressing thin sheet metal handles, NOT for pressing genuine stag.

I thought we were talking about pressing bone and other materials to look like genuine stag? This patent application was filed by Michael Mirando from impirial knife co. They were extremely successful at making inexpensive knives. This invention is relevant because it shows the progression toward more modern techniques like staglon. I found it interesting they talk about heating the Die as well as the material. I’ve read it a few times and it for sure talked about putting stag indentations in plastics and celluloid. Unless I’m totally confused by the legal Mumbo jumbo which is possible. Take another look through it.

[thegreedygulo]

Interesting topic. I had a discussion with Mark Zalesky regarding "patent stag" a few years ago because of the knives posted below. To sum up what he said, he thought that patent stag was formed by using heat & pressure. As for its composition, he thought it was formed from bone. An interesting note is that Boker offered several patterns available with patent stag handles in their 1906 catalog, but only in the American Tree Brand Jack Knives section. I've posted a couple of pages below for reference. I hope I'm not adding to the confusion; this is just my 2 cents worth.

[LongBlade]

Great addition and good info Roger .., you’re not at all adding to the confusion but adding more to ponder...

[Mason]

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2689400A/en
Here is a link to a press for making stag knife handles.

That patent is for pressing thin sheet metal handles, NOT for pressing genuine stag.

I thought we were talking about pressing bone and other materials to look like genuine stag? This patent application was filed by Michael Mirando from impirial knife co. They were extremely successful at making inexpensive knives. This invention is relevant because it shows the progression toward more modern techniques like staglon. I found it interesting they talk about heating the Die as well as the material. I’ve read it a few times and it for sure talked about putting stag indentations in plastics and celluloid. Unless I’m totally confused by the legal Mumbo jumbo which is possible. Take another look through it.

The Mirando patent is interesting but is not really what this discussion is trying to discover as I understand it. The focus of this discussion is to determine if genuine stag which is basically bone was ever pressed into a mold to form a knife handle. Plenty of materials from horn to synthetics to metals were pressed in a form and are well documented, but I can find no proper examples of genuine stag being pressed into a form. Is it possible? Probably, under the right temperatures and pressures, but is it practical or economical especially for a knife handle? Probably not.

[JAMESC41001]

Yes, your right. There are a couple things being discussed at the same time here. Materials like tortoise, horn and stag were put in a type of press to take out the curviture so it could lay flat. Sometimes it needs to be done twice before it stays where you need it. That’s more like a vice then a press. I don’t know if stag can have an imprint put into it no mater how much you boil it or heat it. In Sheffield The trick was, especially since the Mckinely Tariff in 1890 to do things to compete. They resisted using modern machines with everything they had. It looks to me like this was the origin of pressed stag. The practice of pressed horn like the checkered pattern was purely ornamental and may have given someone the idea of pressed stag in the first place. This is my take on it and I’m open to different opinions. Solid information on this subject is tough to find.

[RalphAlsip]

Great conversation. Why didn't US companies import such ,or why has no one shown an example on a US manufactured knife?

The back handle on this Ka-Bar Gunboat resembles the material being discussed. The front handle does not. Given the front handle looks like "regular" stag, it seems unlikely (to me) the back handle would be the "pressed stag".

[wlf]

Thanks Roger.I greatly appreciate and value your input. Were the American Tree Brand knives manufactured in Germany?

Mark Zelasky has seen a lot of knives.

[wlf]

Great conversation. Why didn't US companies import such ,or why has no one shown an example on a US manufactured knife?

The back handle on this Ka-Bar Gunboat resembles the material being discussed. The front handle does not. Given the front handle looks like "regular" stag, it seems unlikely (to me) the back handle would be the "pressed stag".

I would look at your knife Jerry and say it's stag, not pressed, although the pile side has a resemblance as you noted.

Thank you for joining in, you are a valued contributor. Everyone has their bailiwick as Charlie N says.

[wlf]

If you've never read this article, it is interesting.

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/horn.html

[Mason]

Great conversation. Why didn't US companies import such ,or why has no one shown an example on a US manufactured knife?

The back handle on this Ka-Bar Gunboat resembles the material being discussed. The front handle does not. Given the front handle looks like "regular" stag, it seems unlikely (to me) the back handle would be the "pressed stag".

You are correct that those are natural stag handles. I have many examples very similar to this with naturally formed (not pressed) stag handles.
It seems that some are reluctant to accept this fact.

[Mason]

If you've never read this article, it is interesting.

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/horn.html

That's a great article written by the late Jim Taylor almost 20 years ago. Wonderful information on "pressed horn", as we all know was done, but no mention of "pressed stag".

[wlf]

As I said above,Jerry’s knife was not indicative of material discussed. US manufactured knives with the handle material discussed still have not appeared, even if there is such.

Thanks again Jerry and Jay for joining in, I appreciate your input.

[JAMESC41001]

Sorry guys, I am easily confused. Are we all in agreement that the term “pressed Stag” refers to the effect of making bone and other materials look like stag?? There is no reason to press stag to look like stag. And are we trying to understand if and American companies were pressing bone to look like stag. Just trying to keep up here.

[LongBlade]

Stunning knife Jerry ... I am seeing true stag as we know it - pile side is abit different but I am seeing nice stag...

Excellent article Lyle and thanks for sharing it ... I had forgot about it and read it once awhile back on the OKCA website - I didn't remember how relevant it is to this discussion ....

Nice looking knife Neal ... your handles in my opinion are different than the others - I think slightly in demarcations - to me it just seems to have a more natural look with more space between the "gnarls or bi but at the same time similar in shade - almost looks pocket worn even if the handles are not which is interesting to me....

Honestly not sure where I stand with all the examples posted here except the last 2 knives from Jerry and Neal (though I see Neal's handles much closer to those in question ) - according to Mark Zalesky in Roger's post his opinion which I respect given his knowledge etc was it could be pressed bone and I assume it was similar to those posted - I just wonder what hard evidence Mark possibly has that can also be helpful here...

I am looking forward to hear what Charlie finds but in the end - however can one differentiate bone from antler ?? (I am thinking the hot pin would be similar in each) but horn will be different unless compression under heat makes it more dense .. I still am hoping we learn something from your hard work Charlie ...

Jay - saw your post - the question is to identify those handles shown throughout the thread starting with OP knife - question is whether it is "true" stag, pressed stag (maybe patented stag?) or finally is it horn or bone or antler which has been used - heated and pressed in a die to form the handles in question. At least that is how I see it and if I missed something some kind soul will kick in and correct or edit ...