This forum is dedicated to the discussion and display of old knives. The rich history of all the many companies that made them through the early years will be found here as well as many fine examples of the cutlers art. Share pictures of your old knives and your knowledge here!
Really nice Honk Knives Jay ... I find the jumbo sleeveboards really appealing and no doubt a handful of knife - jumbo Whittlers are also very cool!! I’ve seen the double pulls on alot of elephant toe nails like your second jigged bone knife but have also seen them on certain Hunter patterns but can’t remember which maker patterns showed them - Very unusual at least to me is a knife that FRJ (Joe) posted in the American Shear and Knife Co thread - It is an American Shear and Knife Co Whittler with double pulls on the master blade and it is not a jumbo pattern or blade either...
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Lee
Lee, I recently seen a hunter with double pulls also. For some reason I can’t find the pic but it resembled a Napanoch blade too me. There is an Ulster toenail up for auction with double pulls. This is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls. I will try and look for the knife you are referring too.
Hi Jay, I have a couple of bone handled knives and a large pearl jack,I will try to get some pictures up for you.I am also interested in the history of Honk Falls and have information on the company.I will try to find it. Scott
JAMESC41001 wrote:This one is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls.
I was beginning to wonder that myself. No doubt there were cutlers that changed employment from one company to the other (at least in the 1920's anyway).
I have a Dwight Devine Ulster split back whittler (which I believe to be contemporary with Honk Falls era) with double pulls on the main blade altho I have my doubts about if it was orginally intended to be made that way. There is an indent made in the handle for the long pull near the tang, but one would end up ripping off their fingernail before ever getting the blade open with such a strong double spring under that blade! Therefore they have to add a nailnick "higher" up on the blade in order to get it open as the long pull is useless. At 3 1/2", I would not consider this a jumbo whittler either.
Can you open the blade on the sleeveboard using the long pull? BTW Jay that is an unusual but mighty fine lookin' folder you have there.
Ken, great knife! I agree with Dan looks factory to me also. Seems like this is common for Ulster, at least at that time. A quick search and I found these two pictured here. Napanoch Knife was founded by (among others) the two Carmen brothers. They both came from Ulster knife pretty much right at the beginning. They were trained by Dwight Divine and would have been under the supervision of William Booth. Mr Booth has been credited with implementing the departmental system of knife making. He stayed with Ulster until 1923. The Carmen’s helped start Napanoch in 1900. This is around the same time Ulster changed to Dwight Divine and son. Napanoch clearly set up with this departmental structure. When the Honk Falls power house went on line in 1898 Napanoch Knife was listed as one of their first customers. Thing to remember is Napanoch and Ellenville are very close to each other. People from Napanoch would use the Bank and post office in Ellenville for example. All the buisnesses and families were all connected some how. So much so it’s hard to tell the story without drifting far a field. Kinda like now. Point is I’m sure other manufacturers used double pulls but there was definitely a carry over from Ulster to Napanoch with this technique.
Just to clarify... I'm not doubting the knife was factory made with both pulls... but why would one create a long pull that would not open the blade and shape an indent in the handle to access that pull if it won't function as such? I'm thinking that only after discovering the long pull could not be used to open the blade did the cutler at the factory place the nailnick in the blade.
Jay... I was surprised when I went back through this thread that you did not post a photo of the Honk Fall pattern you sold to me. So if you don't mind, as the new proud owner thanks to you, I'm posting my first Honk Falls.
Did they use a numbering code to identify their patterns?
Very nice Ken. Happy it’s in good hands. It’s good to see it posted here. Being able to trade information and learn from people like yourself is awesome. I was going through a NYK catalog today and I found a knife that resembles your Ulster. I’ll take a pic for you. I really think it is as intended and not an afterthought.
Did they use a numbering code to identify their patterns?[/quote]
Ken, I have not seen any pattern codes. Then again I have not seen a catalog, a box, a sale sheet, no real advertising to speak of. No sales receipt or anything like that. There is a small add in the 1921 cutlery journal. And I do have a warranty sheet that I believe went out with the knives. Most Honks that I’ve seen are based on Napanoch patterns that can be seen in Rhett Stidams guide. It would appear that the knives at least initially were made from existing parts. I can’t confirm that but if you look at the Nap punches that Winchester used for example they have the same patent markings on them as do the punches in the Honk tool kits I’ve observed. This is not really a stretch to believe. When Rhett Stidam left Napanoch he took a pile of parts that were left from the Honk factory. I don’t believe John Cushner came back to an empty factory when he returned from Winchester. Actually I don’t believe he ever intended to stay in Connecticut long. He was a Napanoch man to the core. He never sold his house. His father built that house. His daughters thought school in a school house you could see outside their window. You would think it’s hard to write a guide with so little of the typical information but actually there is a ton of information. The hardest part is to stay away from supposition an just stick to factual info. Readers will draw there own conclusions. It is a great story. A little different then what’s been done by others I hope.
JAMESC41001 wrote:This one is pretty interesting as there are some real links to Ulster from Honk Falls.
I was beginning to wonder that myself. No doubt there were cutlers that changed employment from one company to the other (at least in the 1920's anyway.
I'm sure Empire's design man or someone with intimate knowledge pretty much copied the Empire Farmers jack for Schrade, as these are the only examples out of the many ,many I have observed with their design . The difference being the length that allows the pivot pin on the pruning blade to be placed outside the rat tail in the large bolster.
That is interesting. Empire made great knives. I just sold my Schrade farmers jack. It was made well with great snap. You can probably guess what I traded it for. I never cared for the pivot pins being in the indent like that. Seem like they don’t sit still in there very well.
Honk Falls made ink erasers. Napanoch had made these also. These are the only ones made with an HFK Co.over Napanoch tang stamp that I’ve seen. Although the one looks done by hand which is curious?
Sorry guys I should have clarified, these two aren’t mine. I’m on the hunt for one for a while. It was cool being able to handle and photograph one. So close but yet so far. Honk used Napanoch on their stamps. The odd part is the HFK Co. part. That’s unique to these. My guess is the one with the hand written tang was left over stock they had and did not have a tang stamp for it yet(if ever). From my experience everyone is always waiting on tang stamps. I try not to post pics from the internet that I have not personally taken but finding one of these is hard, finding two for comparison is a neat trick.
Here is one of mine. I was able to compare it with two others and found the size of the screwdriver varies quite a bit. Winchester made one just like it for a while. Each one of these tells a story. The scouts went after Winchester and others around 1925 to stop unofficialy using the term scout. Winchester complied.
Those ink erasers are my lesson in the "learn something new every day" category. Very informative. I take it they were used to literary scrap the ink off the paper?
Very cool looking' HK "scout" knife. I like the older style blade types...
That’s a beauty of a Honk Falls Utility Knife Jay .. Bone is so nice ...
Ken - Exactly the ink eraser knives scraped off the ink... never tried the one I have but wondered if it shredded the paper abit as well... I guess the technological development of “white out” was the next step following these knives - and now white out is a thing of the past ..
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Lee
Very nice Lyle! Where did you get it back from? I’m curious to know ithe History of yours. Also how is the walk and talk. Mine has a very strong pull and a little tight closing. Yours is the fifth example of this pattern that I’ve seen now. Four of them I was able to speak with the owner and three separate people told me the knife was recovered from the fire. I have been paying close attention to the bone on these pieces. Here is mine for reference. I have a coke bottle pattern that was damaged on one side in the fire. The damaged bone was replaced and made to match the existing original side. This is significant because it shows jigged bone being used in October 1929. After the fire destroyed the honk falls factory, one of the owners, John Cushner continued to make knives in a converted barn on his property. The available information states he revived the Napanoch name. Mr Cushner was one of the men that went to Winchester for a short time. Winchester wen into receivership not long after the fire at Honk Falls and the Nap trade Mark would have been available. There are a lot of twists here but the question I have been looking at is did John Cushner finish honk Falls Knives in the barn. He had the parts for sure. His daughter gave a bunch of them to Rhett Stidam in the 70’s when he rolled into town. These parts got distributed after that complicating things a bit. The real clue is knives like yours here. They were in the same fire and re handled. Some of the bone used matches other Honks and some matches Napanoch Knives. Some don’t match anything.
Jay... Unfortunately the photo you posted is a bit dark to make out the detail in the handle of you farmer's jack... but I think its a really cool pattern & being from Honk Falls makes it that much cooler...
- Very unusual at least to me is a knife that FRJ (Joe) posted in the American Shear and Knife Co thread - It is an American Shear and Knife Co Whittler with double pulls on the master blade and it is not a jumbo pattern or blade either...
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- and now white out is a thing of the past 
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