Inner rust removal

[S2K]

Hello all. I have an Imperial slipjoint knife that is in good shape mechanically speaking, but has surface rust on the inside of the liners and backspring. (Blades are good so suspect they were oiled.)

Any suggestions on how to get it off? I'm thinking a Dremel rotary, but which disks?

Thanks.

[orvet]

I would use the Dremel with a one inch brass wire wheel brush. It will remove the rust without damaging the steel.

[Meridian_Mike]

It will take a good bit longer.... but, sometimes I fold a piece of sandpaper until it fits tight in the space and work on it with oil (a lot of oil) and the paper until I get it cleaned to my satisfaction.

Mike

[rea1eye]

I would spray some WD-40 into it, then wipe away with a soft cloth or pad several times.
After that, use the sandpaper method like Mike stated. Then spray with WD-40 again to
rinse everything out. Should clean up real nice.

Bob

[OLDE CUTLER]

I usually go with a small piece, maybe 1/2' square cut from a gray ultra fine Scotchbrite pad wet with WD40 and pushed back and forth inside the knife with a small straight tip screwdriver.

[orvet]

On a knife with a deeper blade well I use 1-1/2" brass wire wheels, but it doesn't work very well on a knife with a full height center liner,
it works better on scout or utility patterns.

A nother product I find works well is 3M polishing paper. You can get it at Jantz supply among other places. It's more like a cloth than a paper and the scratch pattern is much finer than comparable grit of regular sandpaper I will wrap a piece of 400 or 600 grit polishing paper around the popsicle stick and I can get nto the blade well much better and it doesn't leave the deep scratches the sandpaper leaves. Both the brass wheels and the sandpaper removed from dirt and rust mechanically.

Another way of getting at that rust on top of the backsprings is to shave a pencil down where it will fit between the liners and use the graphite tip of the pencil to remove the rust. It works quite nicely!

If you have a sonic cleaner, I would put the knife in the sonic cleaner, cover it with water and add two or three drops of Dawn dishwashing liquid. Let the cleaner cycle through once or twice and you will be amazed at how much rust and dirt you get out of the knife. After the sonic cleaner I would wash it out with warm water and brush it with a stiff brush, I find a grout cleaning brush is nice and stiff and works well, or a brass brush will work also. After washing them out I blow them dry with my air compressor, then use Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber to wash out any rust ordered I missed in the previous process. Then I blow them out again with compressed air and then I will the joint with Quick Release Oil. If that brings out a lot of rust I might repeat the whole process again, I would at least go back and use the Gun Scrubber again and blow it out once again.

There are a number of different methods you can use, some more efficient than others but they will most all get the job done. OC uses gray ultra fine Scotchbrite pads, I use them also in numerous applications. They work and quite nicely!

[Mumbleypeg]

I'm with Dale especially on the pencil. I like the wide flat carpenter's pencils for use on knives. The graphite in them is wider and stronger than that of a typical round pencil, which also typically has a smaller round graphite center. Being flat-sided to begin with, I find it easy to whittle down the wood on a carpenter's pencil to a narrower shape.

Ken

[S2K]

Wow. Thank you for all of this guidance. I will post some before and after pictures. A good wintertime activity!

[Kase's Kutlery Plus]

If you have the room use a brass wheel on a rotary tool. The quickest way to do it. I do use wd 40 as well. If the liner is divided I use the sandpaper folded in half.

[RescueRestoreReveal]

I was into restoring tools before knives. And have learned that using abrasivs or wire wheel alone often misses rust at the deepest levels of the pits that it forms as it eats into iron/steel.

My current solution is to degrease a knife or tool first.(degreaser then mineral spirits).
Then I use a rust converter specifically Evaporust (unlike vinegar it doesnt eat the metal and cause flash rusting,doesnt effect paint, or react with various handle materials).
Because it is a liquid it gets into the small spaces.
After I take it out in a few hours i clean off the black residue that replaces the rust, and then consider using a wire wheel with a dremel wire for small spaces.
I find this method to be the least harmful and most effective.
Hope this helps and as is said Your mileage may vary.
G

[orvet]

Hi G,
Welcome to AAPK!

Where do you get Evaporust? Also, have you used it with celluloid handles?
If I'm following your description properly I think you're soaking the knife in the Evaporust for a few hours. I'm sure that would be fine if it is just the metal knife parts without any handle material attached, but when dealing with celluloid I am always reluctant to do anything that might affect it. I kinda adopt a "less is more" attitude when it comes to cleaning celluloid. Have you allowed celluloid to soak in the Evaporust, and if so what were the results.
I'm really looking forward to hearing from you on this topic, as are several other people I'm sure. The great thing about AAPK is it is a place where we can all learn together from one another's experience my sharing in the forums.

Thanks again and welcome aboard!

[RescueRestoreReveal]

Thank you for that warm welcome

To answer your questions.
Evaporust i get at several chain stores tractor supply is usually cheapest, but i have also seen it at Advance autoparts, napa,and local hardware stores. Prob on amazon as well.

Time spent soaking (full immersion) is usually 1 to3 hours i check once an hour and give things a scrub with a toothbrush n rinse to inspect condition. 2 stubborn old camper knives rusted shut required overnight. Another knife an imperial i plain forgot after dealing with a cranky toddler it was fine just darker than usual with more black build up requiring a bit more cleanup.

My tool restoration experience led me feel confident with handle materials.
Wood handles simply get wet swelling if any has been unnoticable. I pat dry then,then air dry while addressing blades, later i will scrape with a razor blade, possibly lightly sanding to remove decades of grime n grease,paint flecks,etc.
then knowing how wood dries out I will oil with walnut oil,sunboiled linseed,or mineral oil all are food safe

I have soaked plastic ,bone,shell,and snythetic handles some of which where celluoid none of them ever reacted badly or where degraded by Evaporust (not sponsored just a fan of what works)
So far I have restored about 15 or so with a few in progress.
I enjoy rescuing these knives from an early rusty trashheap and putting them back to work perhaps one day to pass on to the next generation as some have come down to me.
G

[glennbad]

Dale,

I have used evaporust on various tools and knives. Still haven't gotten around to trying it on stag, plastic, or cell, but I once immersed a jigged bone Boker stockman in evaporust, without any damage to the bone. However, I would experiment before using it on anything that has value just to be sure.

The product works quite well, as G mentioned. The important thing to remember is that once you take the metal out of the solution, you should rinse it well. The metal will now have no appreciable protection from new rust, and should be treated in some way to protect it. It will also a have dark carbon-ey like buildup, which as G said, will vary on how long you leave it in. This will have to be cleaned. I find the product works best when you can immerse individual parts, as opposed to assembled items, as the after clean-up will be easier.

Oh yeah, the product is also environmentally safe, I believe you can literally pour it down the drain to dispose of it.

[RescueRestoreReveal]

... once you take the metal out of the solution, you should rinse it well. The metal will now have no appreciable protection from new rust, and should be treated in some way to protect it. ...."


Oh yeah, the product is also environmentally safe, I believe you can literally pour it down the drain to dispose of it.

Glenn intresting points.
When i used to use vinegar to derust tools i always had to deactivate it with baking soda n water and then immediatly clean n treat the metal to prevent rerusting..
However because evaporust use a chelation process my experience has been that if you pull it out even if you rinse off with water there is no flash rusting! Instead there seams to be a grace period of at least a few days before the battle with rust begins again.
Ideally Glenn is correct and it is optimum to rinse off and clean im a fan of the Goop or zep cleaners and a brass brush.
For the carbony buildup i often hit it with a 3in wirewheel drill attachment or a wheel on a dremel.
Since i often use 3m on the spring n hinges when working crud out a thin coat of that on the blades works well unless it will be a knife that i might use for food then mineral oil

[S2K]

What does Evaporust do to patina?

[orvet]

What does Evaporust do to patina?

If I am understanding it properly, the black coat it makes on the blade is sort of the patina on steroids.
I imagine that must be cleaned off because the product probably is acidic, and it is acids that create patinas.
I am guessing that once you clean all the black residue from the Evaporust you are pretty much down to bare steel without any patina and that is why Glenn mentioned the need to protect the steel. One product I find it works good and protecting the steel is Eezox.

[RescueRestoreReveal]

What does Evaporust do to patina?

"Patina" is layers of oxidation caused from the dirt, sweat and oils from skin giving a darker hue than when it is bare metal. This coloration often conceals underlying rust slowly eating away at the metal.
So by degreasing and then using a rust converter you are stripping that away and getting back to metal. This will extend the life of the knife as well as having it clean enough to use on food. Assuming you use a food safe oil to prevent future rust.
Personally I am baffled by the desire to protect patina. would one not only continue to use a toothbrush that had gone grey with usebut, take it out and admire the color?
Or perhaps a better analogy might be that patina is like a bandage that has gotten grimy if its not removed and replaced with a clean coating the wound wont heal and can be reinfected. Eventually there might be an intresting scar left .
I find the "scars" leftbehind on a knife to be far revealing of a knifes past/story than the old sweat and grime of patina.
But hey YMMV
G

[RescueRestoreReveal]

..One product I find it works good and protecting the steel is Eezox.

Thanks for the Eezox product tip I will have to look into it.
On tools I like a fine oil and good old johnson pastewax.
But on my pocket knives its just been the oil so far.

[orvet]

Eexox is made for guns where rust can be a big issue.
The best knife oil by far is Quick Release Oil.

I will revisit the patina issues when I have more time.

[S2K]

RRR, I'm generally with you on patina but as I'm sure you know if you've been at this for a while you'll get an argument from others.

Myself, I'm generally an SS (sharp and shiny) guy, but I do have a few old slippies that I've left the patina. Interestingly those don't rust during my humid summers while polished unoiled carbon knives do. In the end, beauty is as the old saw goes in the eye of the beholder.

[Mumbleypeg]

"Patina" is layers of oxidation caused from the dirt, sweat and oils from skin giving a darker hue than when it is bare metal. This coloration often conceals underlying rust slowly eating away at the metal.

G

Ken

[RescueRestoreReveal]

RRR, I'm generally with you on patina but as I'm sure you know if you've been at this for a while you'll get an argument from others.

Myself, I'm generally an SS (sharp and shiny) guy, but I do have a few old slippies that I've left the patina. Interestingly those don't rust during my humid summers while polished unoiled carbon knives do. In the end, beauty is as the old saw goes in the eye of the beholder.

On the couple of old ones i try to do the least possible. Other wise im a sharp and clean guy.
Intrestingly on the first knife i ever restored it had a patina after the first cleaning. I just had sandpaper and hadnt tried evaporust yet. When i started sanding as soon as I broke through the patina there a was rusty layer right underneath it. I later learned that this is normally the case (as well as sandpaper not being a great idea).
Anyways like you said i agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder
G

[Mumbleypeg]

In over 50 years of working with knives I have NEVER seen, or heard of, rust being seen or found under patina! Please spare us from "I later learned this is normally the case."

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Perhaps we gave a difference in understanding what "patina" means. Here's a good explanation of rust and patina, and the difference between them. http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/2014 ... bout-rust/

If you don't care to read the entire article, here is the essence of it as it pertains to patina

A patina is a thin layer that forms on the surface of carbon steel with age and use. Patinas are a kind of corrosion that can contain many chemical compounds such as oxides, carbonates, sulfides, and sulfates. Because the chemical composition of each patina is unique to the alloy and the exposure/use of that alloy many different hues, shades, and colors can form in a natural patina. A naturally formed well-seasoned patina a beautiful thing on a blade and it will provide decent rust prevention if kept oiled and well maintained.

Ken

[S2K]

Thanks for the article Ken. Interestingly, it's the microscopic layer of chromium oxides ithat form on the surface of stainless steels that retards rusting. That O2 just won't give up!

[RescueRestoreReveal]

Intresting article thanks for posting it.


I suspect that since my experience cleaning and derusting comes from a handtool perspective first.
Tools not as lovingly cherished and oiled as a favored pocketknife.
And that the slipjoints i have been exposed to so far have been poorly stored and abused ie they were all rusty and grimy with 2 exceptions (just oiled thoose)
I see that patina in the knife world were its formed from the acids and good oils , where a blade has been cared for and taken on a desirable color. I guess that makes sense.
Thanks for taking time to express your views on it. As I dig through the posts on here ill be on the lookout for good knife patina. Maybe one day ill find something nice in the wild like that.
G