Blade Tempering? To do or not to do?

[Cope]

OK I'm fairly sure what the consensus on this will be but I need to ask anyway. Does blade tempering really matter for the most part? The only reason I ask this is because I find it's a really BIG issue with knife guys and I have to wonder if it really should be. First I'll sort of answer the question myself with a YES it's definitely important for various reasons BUT "only for the one's who are actually going to use the knife." In all reality how many people fork out $500 for a custom knife and use the knife to dress a deer? I know there are some guys who take their hunting as seriously as I take my knife collecting. They want the best gun or bow and among other things, the best knife to dress their game. But I would assume these are few. I used $500 for an example and as you know this is a modest sum for a custom knife. They can easily run in the thousands. So taking the 95% who I would say buy these expensive knives and wouldn't dream of sticking them in a deer, is tempering really all that important? Maybe there is something I don't know about tempering that makes it very necessary and that's why I'm asking this. Is it as important on these expensive knives as the time that is put into not only the process but the volumes that is being written about it? I'd like your opinions whatever they may be. Thanks

Brad

[El Lobo]

Brad,

Tempering is very, very important.







Nobody wants to be holding a LIMP blade...




Bad Billy

[Hukk]

Tempering is VERY important. There are 2 types of tempering, heat and cryo. Tempering is done after hardening to decrease hardness and increase toughness. Tempering will determine the final hardness on the rockwell "C" scale. The final temper is always a heat temper.

Cryo temper is done with dry ice or liquid nitogen. There are some I've heard that add acetone to the dry ice, I've never tried it, sounds as if it could be fun. A cryo temper is sandwiched around 2 heat tempers. IIRC, dry ice will add a half point to a bit less than a full point on the "C" scale while liquid nitrogen adding a point to a bit over a point and a half.

Tempering is also known as drawing back. They may have a steel at full harness that is at 65 Rc, tempering is drawing a steel down to a more useful 59 Rc or so for cutlery uses.

Other uses may want that steel at a full hard 65 Rc, such as bits, tooling jigs, and file guides for example.

O-1 is a forgiving steel in that it allows do-overs. get it wrong and you can do it over.

Then there is spring temper like for a backspring. It's approximately 2/3 of the full hardness - roughly.

Yes, my brothers use knives I make, but those are about $350 and the last ones were O-1 steel at 60 Rc.

[Ringmaster]

Ditto....

Actually, Brad, the entire heat-treating process is the heart and soul of steel. Tempering is very important, yes - but if it wasn't heat-treated properly in the first place, you can't temper it into an excellent blade.

Granted, you have to first start with a real cutlery grade steel - can't make a silk purse outta a cow's ear. But even great steel can't perform, unless it's heat-treated properly. It CAN get complicated, and it can be discussed at length, and the equipment is expensive. But the pro's have usually got it figgered out.

Most folks will NEVER even sharpen a $500 custom, much less use it - which is a shame. For the record, I have cleaned one deer, with a $1600 Moran Damascus - ONCE. Almost every custom maker's primary goal is to make a superior using knife.

Take care, buddy
JR

[Hukk]

Yes, heat treating can be rather tricky. Some steels want a pre-heat and soak before going to the full heat (austenitize temperature). A2 wants that ramp up in temperature to be slow. Some metals want an air cool like most tool steels not all, O-1 is oil. Some desire a double temper and going to room temperature between tempers. Lots of variables and depend on each steel.

[jonet143]

i think to make a knife without tempering the steel properly would be like making a gun out of potmetal. might look good on the wall but......

[Cope]

Well Johnnie ain't that basically what the majority of high dollar custom knives do.....look good in a display? Thanks to every one who has commented but I think your missing my point. Johnnie you really said it best about the gun reference. That is my reason for asking about this. Oh yeah I understand on a user knife that tempering is "VERY IMPORTANT"......but are these knives user knives? I fully understand the reason for tempering but I'll speak for me (and me only mind you) if I bought an expensive custom fixed blade knife, it would never even see the outdoors, let alone sink it's teeth into an animal. I just wanted to see the responses and I thank each of you for your input.

Brad

[jonet143]

yeah, cope i thought i knew what you were refering to. even though a custom knife may never get used, if it had to, it should perform.

[Hukk]

Absolutely, they are made to perform, even if all they ever end up as a Desk Queen. A real shame really, the guys who do use these knives, know how they perform. I just got in some 8370M an L-6 alternative and some O-1 a favorite. When the wife ain't lookin I'm gonna pick up a couple others, yeah one will be air hardening, not as messy.

I'd like to make a distinction between art knives and high priced hunting knives though. Even most of those art knives will do a number on any critter you might want to be field dressing, it just isn't done. I can see why an art knife would become a Desk Queen - I don't understand why a perfectly good hunter wouldn't get used just cause so and so made it.

[El Lobo]

IMO.

Most folks wouldn't consider it a "Knife" if it didn't hold up to use...regardless whether or not YOU/I used it.

Again, JMO.

Bill