America's "Little Sheffield"

[KAW]

Thanks Dan & Joe for the kind words....
Joe... I found your nice little Stockman in the 1957 catalog....

....bet you wish you could have got it for that price?!

Well.... I've come to my first fork in the thread.... do I continue with Schrade's history into the Schrade Walden era.... of which I don't have any sure representative samples of those made in Walden before that factory burned in 1958.... forcing the decision to move the operation to Ellenville.... or.... do I stick closer to the timeline and start at the beginning in Ellenville....

Since either way I'm gonna end up in Ellenville, I might as well start with the first company to establish themselves there.... Ulster Knife Co....
The first few years did not seem to go very smoothly for the fledgling company until it was managed by one person....
1871: The Ellenville Co-Operative Knife Co. sets up shop in the old Ellenville Iron Works, also known as the Bloomer Foundry on Canal Street.
1875: The Ellenville Co-Operative Knife Co. reorganizes as the Ulster Knife Co. with several partners at the helm.
1878: Dwight Devine takes contol of Ulster Knife Co.
1880: Fire destroys Ulster Knife plant, but is soon rebuilt. The rebuilt factory works on Canal Street still exists today.

As Dimitri pointed out to me on another thread.... this happens to be a worn down hawkbill.... to be honest I was hoping it was a rope knife.... don't know how old this ole Ulster is.... but appears to done some hard time in its day....

[FRJ]

Thanks Dan and thanks Ken.
Hey, that's a pretty neat little catalog cut.

[KAW]

Joe.... You can find the catalogs at: http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/ ... /index.htm

[FRJ]

Thanks a lot, Ken. That's great.

[KAW]

So here are two Ulster Knife TL-29 electricians knives I had picked up early on in my collecting spree.... The top one without a shield at 3½" is slightly smaller than the 3¾" one below.... Again, the top on has all steel liners including the liner lock, where as the one below is all brass.... So the question is.... are the differences between the two due to age or are they contemporaries but at different price levels?... & if so, about what time period?... As always.... this inquiring mind wants to know....

[FRJ]

I can't tell you anything about your two Ulster knives, Ken, except that they seem much bigger than my Empire electrician knives.
The Empires seem more slender.

Here's another Wallkill River Works folder that I just got. Bought from a fellow member of the forum who has a keen eye for knives.
In my research I found it was owned by another member too.

This is a very nice and solidly made pen. Rosewood or perhaps Cocobolo covers. I'm probably misspelling that.
Half stops on both blades and very snappy. I'm very happy to have this handsome little knife. 3 5/16".

[Duffer]

Very pretty equal-end pen Joe! The covers are beautiful. They look like Rosewood to me but that is just a guess based on a couple of knives I have with similar looking colors.

[KAW]

Congrats on your newly found prize, Joe!.... it surely is a sweetie!
.... and since that brand was onlty around for three years.... I bet its pretty rare too!
Thanks for posting it here....

[Duffer]

Here is a Schrade Cut Co. EE small Jack I recently acquired in stainless steel. It is 3 & 3/8 inches closed. I found it in the Schrade Cutlery Company catalog E 1926 page 23. It is pattern no. 2563. Although this catalog does not specifically identify SS available in this pattern. On page 10 under "Key To Numbering System" (i) "SS" prefixed to a number indicates a knife with Stainless Steel Blades and Springs. Question? when was stainless steel introduced and for how long before it was discontinued back in the day? I know that SS was not initially popular when introduced so relatively few knives were probably made.

This example is in high grade condition with little evidence of much use. It has been sharpened post factory but there is no blade loss that I can tell. It has superb W&T. The blade well is absolutely pristine and there is no hint of corrosion, staining or discoloration anywhere probably because of the higher chromium content. Much of the original polish on the blades is still present.

[FRJ]

Thank you, Lloyd and Ken.

Lloyd, that is a beautiful little knife.
Beautiful Schrade covers and I like to see that long pull on the shorter knives. Very nice.

[KAW]

Not really sure this answers your question any Llyod.... but lookin' thru the available catalogs at "collectors-of-schrades-r.us" website....that pattern only shows up again in the 1953 & 54 catalogs under the new numbering system as 256. but not with stainless steel blades.
The more popular 242 (formerly 2423) at 3⅛" lasted into the 60's & is in the 1940 catalog with the stainless steel option.
The only relevance in this post is.... that's a honey of a knife any way you look at it....

[KAW]

It would definitely be remiss not to mention Ulster Knife Co. without showing some of their Boy Scout knives.... It seems that after New York Knife lost their monopoly on the Boys Scout knives in 1922.... Ulster appeared to picked up the majority of the market share & dominated it right up until before they were phased out.... So, I was told by a member of the Wawarsing Knife Museum that the older Ulster Knife Co. Boy Scout knife in the photo is the first type of Scout knife they made.... having the "Be Prepared" shield.... and the old style can opener.... altho the scout that owned this one got plenty of use out of its main blade....

....the other is a much newer (probably 60's) Ulster USA of Baer's Imperial Knife Associated Companies with the Boy Scouts iconic emblem on the shield and a nice etch on the main blade....

[KAW]

The remainder of the Ulsters I have are from the Baer era....
In 1941, Albert Baer, who had already acquired the Imperial brand of Providence, Rhode Island, bought Ulster Knife Co. from Dwight Divine & Sons. Baer places both under the umbrella of Imperial Knife Associated Companies [IKAC]. Both brands operate just as they did when the were separate identities.... each in their own original factories. In 1972, IKAC discontinues the Ulster line.

Now I knew Baer had bought the license to use the "Hammer Brand" trademark.... I thought it was used exclusively on the Imperial Knives up to 1955. What I discovered when I purchased this 2⅞" № 183 Dogleg Jack is that Ulster also used the “Hammer Brand USA” tang stamp with no other identifying marks other than the cellophane packaging to say it is an Ulster Knife. This brings up the quandary.... How does one identify an Imperial "Hammer Brand" vs. an Ulster "Hammer Brand" when there is no packaging available to fall back to?

[colin.p]

Fascinating thread. I really enjoyed spending the evening reading all 11 pages. Thanks for the history and lovely examples gents and I will definitely follow this thread.

[JohnR]

Ken, here is an early Ulster with an Ellenville tang stamp for this thread, some very fine knives being shown here.

[danno50]

Great Ulsters posted lately, Ken! Joe, I really like that Walkill River Works penknife! Beautiful Schrade Cut Co jack, Lloyd! Great old Uster pruner, John, beautiful old and clear tang stamp!
Dan

[FRJ]

Joe, I really like that Walkill River Works penknife!

Thanks so much, Dan.

[KAW]

colin.p.... thanks for dropping in.... ....come by anytime & feel free to join in whenever....
JohnR.... Thanks for posting that nice old pruner.... I guess that is how my knife posted at the top of that same page
is suppose to look like...? ....Does your knife have the number 1010 stamped on the pile side of the tang?
Dan.... glad you dropped by again.

[peanut740]

D & S Walden NY.Appears to be over stamped onto another stamp,very hard to see.Knife looks to me like an early Schrade Cut.

[danno50]

Interesting stamping, Roger, I like the shield.
Dan

[tongueriver]

Knife looks to me like an early Schrade Cut.

YES.

[KAW]

Interesting stamping, Roger, I like the shield.
Dan

Roger, I agree with Dan... very nice knife! Any clue as to what the "D & S" stands for?

Now I knew Baer had bought the license to use the "Hammer Brand" trademark.... I thought it was used exclusively on the Imperial Knives up to 1955. What I discovered when I purchased this 2⅞" № 183 Dogleg Jack is that Ulster also used the “Hammer Brand USA” tang stamp with no other identifying marks other than the cellophane packaging to say it is an Ulster Knife. This brings up the quandary.... How does one identify an Imperial "Hammer Brand" vs. an Ulster "Hammer Brand" when there is no packaging available to fall back to?

I was surprised not to get any response to this....
but I would really like to know more about Baer's use of the Hammer Brand among his product lines.... so at the risk of
....I'm bringing it up again....

I have one more Ulster to post.... I know nothing about it other than its a Baer's Ulster 3¼" Stockman Junior....
I do like the shape of the main blade, which I believe is called a Turkish clip?

[danno50]

Goins has a listing for D&S Walden N.Y. He says it was a marking overstamped on a circle Remington stamping. Gives dates of g 1920 to 1930. When he uses the g in front of dates it indicates that he has no factual data to back up the dates. They are based on his thirty years experience looking at knives.
Dan

[KAW]

Looks like the Ulster brand doesn't hold the interest like the others.... ....so I guess we'll move on....

Within the same year (1941) that Baer acquired Ulster Knife Co., he formed new association named Kingston Cutlery Co. to more easily acquire the amount of raw materials (mostly steel) needed during WWII and knives stamped with the Kingston brand lasted until 1958 when it was discontinued.

This example came from Maine and is a 3¼" Slim Serpentine Jack with black “stagged” bone handle.... either a № K-50S or K-250 depending on ageI think. It only cost me $8 and cleaned up nicely....

[danno50]

Ken, here is a Kingston jack that I have. There is no tang stamp. Kingston over U.S.A. is etched on the blade.
Dan