camillus #72

[jerryd6818]

On purpose Tommy. Those are all standard issue. I didn't include any of the SFOs or those made for other tang stamps.

[carrmillus]

............ ..............

[gsmith7158]

An excellent pictorial display of the historic progression of the 72 Jerryd!

[SolWarrior]

An excellent pictorial display of the historic progression of the 72 Jerryd!

I have to agree with Greg. So that #5 is not really a 72?

[Tsar Bomba]

I love when Jerry shows off his 72s.

Jerry, are both of those yellow 'fauxstag' Yello-Jakets early/rare/prototypes? I'm trying to figure out if there was a production run of those along with the 'plain yella' version. Also attempting to figure out if I lowballed myself when one of those fauxstag Jakets was up for sale or if I was smart in getting out before the price went too bonkers (I think it went for north of $150).

Steve, I had a similar idea earlier that I figured I would marinate on today before making a decision about the 1047. I would be more inclined to hold onto it with a slightly better discount. We shall see, I haven't yet communicated with the seller so I have no idea how he might react, but suffice it to say there will be a message from me in the very near future.

[jerryd6818]

So that #5 is not really a 72?

It's the 72 pattern but they put wood handles on it along with brass bolsters and a plain pull. They made it from 1999-2003 and called it a #5 instead of a #72, Probably for a different price point but then who can guess the reason Camillus did anything.

Jerry, are both of those yellow 'fauxstag' Yello-Jakets early/rare/prototypes? I'm trying to figure out if there was a production run of those along with the 'plain yella' version.

If you look, I modified the picture and numbered the knives. If you're talking about #12 & #13, they're not Yello-Jakets. They are not "early" and I doubt very much that they're prototypes. As far as rarity is concerned, you don't see them very often so I would say they're kind of scarce. I'm not positive but I'm pretty sure (a little help here Vit) those were standard runs, made during the last 4-5 years the company was open. If I'm not mistaken those handles were called Dura-Stag®. #12 has the standard compliment of blades but #13's blades are different and I'm reasonably certain it was one of the last ones made. It has a Stanley SL6 main blade with the Stanley ground off and Camillus etched on.

[kootenay joe]

Going through my Craftsman knives i just found 6 more Camillus made knives using the 72 pattern. There are some interesting 'oddities' here and i will post in a day or 2 when i have had time to take pictures. 3 of the 6 have bone handles, 1 has been buffed, 1 used, & 4 are 'mint-ish' (includes the 3 with bone).
Pretty good find for not leaving the house !
kj

[jerryd6818]

I have a few that were sold by Sears but they're not all Craftsman.

[jerryd6818]

I'm just going to use this thread for clones too. For me, the Camillus 72 is the trunk of this tree and the clones are the branches.

One of our sneaky members (I won't mention any names but I think Green Weenie and cheese should sound familiar to some) sent a text last Thursday which included a link to a 72 clone on eBay. Yeah, you guessed it. It was a BIN and I bit.

It doesn't have a makers name on it anywhere. The master blade is marked Solingen Germany on the pile side and that's it folks. I won't get it until tomorrow but in the pictures, it looks very much like an Lamplough I have, also to a German made Olsen. Handles, jigging, fit & finish, lack of hafting, main blade pull. Any pre-delivery guesses?

[kootenay joe]

Jerry, nice display of Craftsman knives. "Forged USA" and "High Carbon Steel" are markings frequently seen on the Craftsman knives. Some would also have had a "Craftsman" etch which wears off with some use.
I have a 9494 like yours and a second one that is set up as a true whittler. It is odd for Sears/Craftsman to use the same pattern # as usually even a minor change got it's own Craftsman #.
I have a Kissing Crane, Germany, knife that matches the Camillus 72. Likely others can be found marked with a variety of Solingen manufacturers. Solingen in addition to being home to a great many cutlery manufacturers also had manufacturers of knife parts. These would be sold to the knife manufacturers resulting in near identical knives being produced by various Solingen cutlery manufacturers.
kj

[SolWarrior]

Jerry, my gut tells me it's a great find. A hidden gem right out in the open! I see the scales and they kind of look like the front scale on that #72 that Tony bought on the bay, the one listed as a BIN for $150 for a good while. I think Tony got it for $100. Anyway, these scales are a much darker shade but possibly Rogers bone nonetheless. Just my uneducated guess on the covers alone so, maybe it was put together by one of those great east coast cutleries. But like I said, my gut says you got yourself one unique & especial find there!

KJ, I look forward to seeing the photos of the 72s you recently found . Especially the 3 in bone! Sounds like you struck gold!

[kootenay joe]

Here are the 6 Craftsman 72 pattern knives, 3 with bone handles & 3 with plastic handles. The black handles on the "Wood Carver" 9511 i am calling plastic but occasionally one sees jigged bone dyed black. What do the 72 experts say this black one is ?

The 2 knives are both marked on the tang: Craftsman/U.S.A. 9494 and both have 1/2 saber ground master. Likely the lighter colored handle one has been buffed as there is no blade etch. These handles are quite distinctive: Schrade used them briefly just before they began using Delrin, so i believe this dates the knife to late 1950's. I don't know which of these 2 is the older.
I will show the others in the next post.
kj

[313 Mike]

One of our sneaky members (I won't mention any names but I think Green Weenie and cheese should sound familiar to some) sent a text last Thursday which included a link to a 72 clone on eBay. Yeah, you guessed it. It was a BIN and I bit.


It doesn't have a makers name on it anywhere. The master blade is marked Solingen Germany on the pile side and that's it folks. I won't get it until tomorrow but in the pictures, it looks very much like an Lamplough I have,

.....so did it arrive? ...any further thoughts?...is she tight? Is she snappy?...Is it bone or black synthetic? .details man, details!

[kootenay joe]

These 2 both have bone handles and both have the same blade etch: "Craftsman/Chrome Vanadium 9529" and "Forged/U.S.A." on the tang. Blade etches are easily visible in person but not in these pictures due to lighting.
One is set up like a Camillus 72 with a long pen blade beside the master clip. The master has a full flat grind.
The other (with shield) has a half saber gring master blade and is set up like a true whittler with both pen & coping at opposite end from master.
From my collection of Craftsman knives it is very unusual for the same Sears pattern # to be used on knives that are not exactly the same. Usually each minor variation had it's own number. Here there are 2 differences: master blade grind and blade arrangement.
Hard to be certain but these could be from 1930's just before WW II. Is this when "Chrome Vanadium" was introduced as a selling feature ? as knowing when Chrome Vanadium was used will help to ID date with more assurance.
kj

[kootenay joe]

Here are the final 2. One is well used, bone handle, tang stamped: "Craftsman/U.S.A." It has a flat ground master and a coping blade beside the master.
The final one has an etch: "Sta-Sharp/Wood Carver 9511" and on master tang: "Sta-Sharp/U.S.A." The master clip blade has a full saber grind (both sides) and is set up as a true whittler. It has a large shield, "bowtie" ? I think the handles are a plastic but not 100% sure. I am also unsure of age, almost certainly before 1960, but before WW II ??
Please feel free to add any info you might have on any of these 6 Craftsman knives.
kj

[SolWarrior]

KJ, They are all great looking 72 "clones". I'm certainly no expert on anything related to knives, 72s or otherwise but I will give you my two cents on the covers only. My opinion is based on the photos and front covers only, as that side is the only side shown in your photos. I'll go by the second photo to point out which ones I believe are bone covers. The first knife has without a doubt bone covers with the second one most likely bone as well but not 100% certain. If the second one is bone it is absolutely stunning!

If the second one is also bone, the first and second knives are in my opinion both Rogers bone (but again, I'm no expert). The third or last knife's front cover on that photo leaves me undecided. It could be bone or a very good synthetic copy of Roger bone. It's tough to tell by the photos alone. You have them in hand and can best tell if they have visible bone pores with a loupe. Which can best be seen on the edges where the dye has been buffed off a bit more than in other areas.

All in all a great group of 72 "clones", KJ! Great find!!!

[jerryd6818]

One of our sneaky members (I won't mention any names but I think Green Weenie and cheese should sound familiar to some) sent a text last Thursday which included a link to a 72 clone on eBay. Yeah, you guessed it. It was a BIN and I bit.


It doesn't have a makers name on it anywhere. The master blade is marked Solingen Germany on the pile side and that's it folks. I won't get it until tomorrow but in the pictures, it looks very much like an Lamplough I have,

.....so did it arrive? ...any further thoughts?...is she tight? Is she snappy?...Is it bone or black synthetic? .details man, details!

No, it took a side tour to St. Paul MN and won't be here until (maybe) tomorrow. I'm talking about the Solingen knife here. The one you talked me into buying.
The one with the horrible pictures that's stated as bone in the listing just shipped today so it'll be a while. That's the one I'm eager to get and see what it actually is.


Roland, spend a buck (and change) for one of the little 45X microscopes. Yeah, they come out of the far east and it takes a minute for them to get to you but they're well worth it. Then there's no doubt about whether the handles are bone or synthetic.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0 ... pe&_sop=15

BTW, in case there was any doubt, the black handles on the Woodcarver are definitely synthetic.

[kootenay joe]

Jerry, i have one of those 45x lighted 'scopes and 4 others of lesser magnification.
In my first of the 3 posts, second picture showing 3 knives: all are bone, 100% certain. Craftsman Sta-Sharp had more than one style/color of jigged bone. I have quite a few Craftsman knives with the same style of bone as shown in bottom 2 knives in that picture of 3 bone handled 72's.
I group my knives by manufacturer and pattern, not by what the markings happen to say. These 6 Craftsmen were all built by Camillus on the 72 frame, so to me are equal members of the big '72 Family'.
Jerry did you mention a Camillus 72 with full flat grind master with a long pen beside it ? If so does it look like the bone Craftsman 9529 ?
kj

[jerryd6818]

That's the first "Forged USA" I've seen in the 72 pattern. The Kastor list has that stamp being used on the knives Camillus made for Sears between 1935 and 1960. We'll never know for sure but I would put the knife, sometime in the very late 1940s or early to mid 1950s. I'm always open to definitive proof but so far, I've seen nothing that convinces me the 72 pattern was made before 1946. The true whittler (both secondary blades on the opposite end of the main blade), yes but the 72, no.

It's still my contention the swell center true whittler was made before WWII and after the war started when Camillus dedicated all their manufacturing resources to supplying the military with knives, the "swell center true whittler" was discontinued. When manufacturing for the marketplace resumed in late '45 - early '46, the 72 was introduced as it's replacement. When someone comes up with hard facts to the contrary, I'll be happy to capitulate.

Edit: No. I don't recall any of my early (pre 1970) 72s having a master blade that's flat ground on both sides. That doesn't mean Sears didn't order them that way to save a buck. (A word of advice. Never completely trust my memory.)

[kootenay joe]

Thanks for the info Jerry. The Sears knives usually have a slight difference from the same pattern with a Camillus branding, and often it is a 'step up', such as milled liners or threaded bolsters. I doubt the reason behind the differences was to save money. I think the reason was to differentiate the Sears knives from Camillus branded knives and make the Sears Craftsman knives seem like the better of the two.
It would be interesting to know how much the price differed with the same pattern branded Sears vs Camillus. Were the Sears more expensive or less ? Anyone here buying Sears knives in the 1930's ?
kj

[SolWarrior]

Very interesting questions and comments.

KJ, You bring up a great point with your question, one that leads me to question whether any of the 3 in bone were in fact made by Camillus. I do believe you're correct in that Sears did request changes to knives in an effort to step it up, as with the last photo on Jerry's post listing the Sears clones - the Sears #9511 with etched blade & bowtie shield. But flat ground on a whittler in my opinion is not a step up.

Do you consider the flat ground main -vs- the sabre ground on both sides the better of the two on a whittler? This along with the long oval shield or none at all, the plain nail nicks on the two and also no match striker on the one with the long pull makes me think that another cutlery made these knives. Maybe Ulster, Schrade or someone else?

By the way, Jerry, I clicked on the link and ordered one of those 45X microscopes as soon as I saw it late last night. Paid $1.90 w/ free shipping and got a message that it had been shipped by early this morning. What a deal!

[jerryd6818]

It may ship this morning but since it's coming from the other side of the world, it'll be a while before it gets here. I usually buy them 3 or 4 at a time. Most I give away as gifts but I've worn out the batteries in one and threw it away. Mistake. They take an LR927 button battery and I just ordered a card of ten. Cost me a whoppin' 99¢ shipped

[kootenay joe]

Hey Sol, all 3 bone handled #72 frame knives were Camillus made. Have you studied the Sears Craftsman knives in detail ? It's a huge undertaking. After 10 years of Craftsman collecting i still see variations i had not seen before. There are thousands of different Craftsman knives and the vast majority of the older ones are Camillus. I believe that the Sta-Sharp line was all Camillus made.
I'm unsure what you are talking about here: "the Sears #9511 with etched blade & bowtie shield. But flat ground on a whittler in my opinion is not a step up."
The 9511 has a full saber grind on the master.
If you look at the old Sears catalog pages for knives from say 1930-1950 you see that they offered a variety of knives. You might see 2 versions of basically the same knife, one with a saber ground master the other with a full flat grind master. Neither is 'better'. It comes down to personal preference and Sears tried to have a knife for every preference.
kj

[SolWarrior]

Jerry, I slipped! Except for the Camillus #14 Jack with Rogers bone, spur of the moment buys are not my thing. I have to look and wait, think a while, then decide to buy or not to buy. At that price I should have bought more. :facepalm:: I guess I'll wait, use the microscope for a bit and order a few more along with a pack of LR927 batteries. I know my brother would really enjoy one. Thanks!

KJ, It's great that all three are bone. I can't get over the bone of the middle one in the second photo. It's abolutely beautiful! I don't know much about Craftsman's official selections of the 72 clones or their choices of blade configurations. I thought I was catching on but all this is new to me.

I really like the blade configuration on the middle one as well. The coping & pen blade opposite the main. Very nice. It would probably be my second choice, only after to the 1st generation 72 blade configuration. What an awesome knife you have there!

I wrote: "I do believe you're correct in that Sears did request changes to knives in an effort to step it up, as with the last photo on Jerry's post, listing the Sears clones - the Sears #9511 with etched blade & bowtie shield. But flat ground on a whittler in my opinion is not a step up." What I meant, IMHO, was that the etched blade (to some) is a step up and so is the bowtie shield but not the flat grind main on a whittler.

If you look at the old Sears catalog pages for knives from say 1930-1950 you see that they offered a variety of knives. You might see 2 versions of basically the same knife, one with a saber ground master the other with a full flat grind master. Neither is 'better'. It comes down to personal preference and Sears tried to have a knife for every preference.
kj

I'm curious. Did Sears have a version of the 72 in bone with the sabre grind on both sides and with the coping & pen opposite the main blade like your middle knife in the 2nd photo? If so, that would be one I'd like to stumble onto. Man, this 72 fever never breaks!

Personally, I don't like any etching on my blades. It's too fancy for me. Just good old 1095 high carbon steel, and with a nice patina on a user and I'm in heaven.

The great thing about all this is that I'm learning from these knives and you, KJ. Thanks!

Note to self: Lesson #1 - Read, observe and any opinions I may happen to form in my head, if posted should be in the form of questions.

[kootenay joe]

Felix, the style of 72 you describe might well exist. Sears catalogs are a great resource as the drawings and descriptions are accurate. They show you the range of knives offered and can serve to check against a knife you think might have been reworked.
Sears had at least 4 major catalogs per year from 1920's, over 1000 pages of small print equals millions ? of items, and about 2-3 pages show the various lines of Craftsman knives. They changed the knives up continually so that catalogs just 3 months apart show different knives. This is why i say the knife you imagine might have been produced.
Sears catalogs can sell for over $100. It would be a huge undertaking to collect every Sears catalogue from 1920 to 1950, but you would then have the definitive work on all Craftsman knives. Remove knife pages, collate into one book and market it (to all 10 people who will buy it).
And this is knife collecting, so much more potential information than anyone can ever know. Hence it never gets boring because a new discovery keeps coming up.
kj