8OT Swinden Key mod and re-handle

[#goldpan]

I received this 8OT from Jim (Shorthairbirddog) to replace the Swinden system with pins and replace the fat stag with Elk. So Like I did with Gregs (gsmith) knives I am going to post a "play by play" update on this mod. Here are some before pics and pics showing where I am on this project.

Before pics.

Before pics.


Current pics. Here she is before and after being dis-assembled:

[XX Case XX]

Randy: Thanks for the photos, especially after disassembly. I don't think I've ever seen a Swinden system knife opened up like that. Extremely interesting to see.

__________
Mike

[gsmith7158]

Oh boy!! This is fun. You go Randy!

[ea42]

What's the reason for replacing the swinden system?

[#goldpan]

The main blade has play in it. With out the proper equipment and the knowledge the only way that I know to fix the loose blade is to convert the Swinden Key to the traditional thru pins.

[Shorthairbirddog]

This is fun, can't wait to see more.

[#goldpan]

Stay tuned! The Elk is being prepped as I write. Then the transformation will begin! More pics coming soon

[SteelMyHeart85420]

Yikes, hope you're up-to-date with your tetanus shots.....

[Shorthairbirddog]

It is kinda nasty looking ain't it?

[orvet]

It is kinda nasty looking ain't it?

That's not even a bad looking one! Get an old pocketknife this been used and carried by a couple of generations & in it have all kinds of crud inside!

[philco]

Randy I've got an 8OT you can put that fat stag back on if you want.

[#goldpan]

PM in bound Phil!

[ea42]

The main blade has play in it. With out the proper equipment and the knowledge the only way that I know to fix the loose blade is to convert the Swinden Key to the traditional thru pins.

Randy, it's too late now but sometimes giving the end of the center scale a little tap toward the main blade ever so slightly will tighten it up. There are times, especially when knives are worked on like that one, where the scales get bent. This doesn't always work but it definitely saves a LOT of work when it does. Another common cause of blade play on these is that the spring is not matched up in width to the tang. This was sloppiness on the factory's part. The swinden system is a great system but all the parts need to be correct in order for it to work as intended. Looks like a fun project!

Eric

[Shorthairbirddog]

It is some nice looking stag Philco, just uncomfortable in my pocket.

[danno50]

Going to be following this thread with great interest. Thanks, Randy, for making it a WIP thread with progress pictures.
Muskrat man also has a video on repinning a Swinden key Schrade in the tutorial area.
Dan

[#goldpan]

Dan glad your enjoying this thread! Eric you are dead on with that adjustment. This knife had bent pin so I am not sure that that would do it. I had the pins under a microscope to see how these are put together. I have never seen a Swiden machine at work so there is a lot of contemplation going on how I can repair the Swinden Key itself. I have some ideas though. When I get the time I am going to experiment with some ideas. I love the system! Its a very good way to assemble pocket knife. I think I can build a new key, but its going to be trial and error. I hope the trial goes well without too many errors! I also have ideas on how to tighten up a Swinden key. Well when I find the time. I'm keeping notes on my ideas as it may be a while before I find the time.

[orvet]

Eric,
I really appreciate your input in this topic! I have been trying to fix loose Swinden knives for years. I have succeeded in tightening the rivets, only to get them too tight to fit back together. I suppose if the guy had the correct measurements for the distance between the inside of the rivet heads, it would be possible to construct a jig to adjust them back to the correct distance. However, that doesn’t address the problem of why they got loose in the first place…

Randy, it's too late now but sometimes giving the end of the center scale a little tap toward the main blade ever so slightly will tighten it up. There are times, especially when knives are worked on like that one, where the scales get bent.

Eric

In the quote above you referred to the “center scale,” did you mean the center liner? Or did you mean hit the end of the scale in the center?
I have lots of loose Swinden knives to practice on!

Thanks for your input!

[#goldpan]

Dale I believe he is referring to the center liner. This adjustment will add some tension to the assembly and take some of the play out. Anyway I am at he point where I am in the middle of prepping the Elk antler.

Here are the pieces that cut for the scales.

As you can see they need some "adjustment!

This how they came out after the first pressing. Not bad. I am going to soak and press them again. Then they will be ready. They will sit in the press over night as they dry so that they will stay fairly flat, then I can start to plane and shape them.

In the mean time I am cleaning up all of the various parts. Using a 3M pad to get the junk off. Then prep them for accepting their new handles.

Stay tuned!

[#goldpan]

Clean up is going well!

While I was cleaning I found a wear on the tang of the master blade. It's not bad and will clean up nicely! Looks we took her apart at the right time.

[ea42]

Dan glad your enjoying this thread! Eric you are dead on with that adjustment. This knife had bent pin so I am not sure that that would do it. I had the pins under a microscope to see how these are put together. I have never seen a Swiden machine at work so there is a lot of contemplation going on how I can repair the Swinden Key itself. I have some ideas though. When I get the time I am going to experiment with some ideas. I love the system! Its a very good way to assemble pocket knife. I think I can build a new key, but its going to be trial and error. I hope the trial goes well without too many errors! I also have ideas on how to tighten up a Swinden key. Well when I find the time. I'm keeping notes on my ideas as it may be a while before I find the time.

Randy, there was a headed pin that the blade, or blades and center scale went over. Then this assembly was placed into a fuxture and the opposite head was formed in a press to the exact length necessary for the particular knife. This would be very difficult to mimic in a home shop. You'd likely be better off adjusting the keyhole to make the assembly tighter. Looking good!

Dale, yes I was referring to the end of the center liner. We called the liners "scales" in the shop, as most of the cutlery shops do.The terms were interchangeable as they referred to the same item. I don't know when folks started calling the pocket knife covers scales but it's technically not right, they're only scales when they come into contact with the blade tang, as in a fixed blade full tang knife or a linerless pocketknife.

Eric

[#goldpan]

Yep Eric I know that it would be hard to do. I'm stubborn though I used to work in the family iron shop. Miller Iron Works in New Castle Ca. Managed the shop and built my equipment as it was needed. I do have different ideas about how I would build the keys. Its all about a quest for me. I have began working it out on paper. It wont be easy and I understand about possible failure. But the bug has bit As with other stuff I do here I'll post and share what I find. Maybe others can add to the concepts and make them work even if I don't succeed. I also have a friend who is a retired mechanical engineer. I plan on asking him lots of questions! But that's down the road, I have very little time to play with my ideas at the moment.

[#goldpan]

Well I have to admit that I played hooky from the shop today My brother and I hiked about five miles down to the lake to fly his kite Felt like a kid again

I did some work on the Elk tonight though. Started thinning it down. Its going well too!

I have some errands to run tomorrow but should have the handles fitted and perhaps shaped. I even have another set of Elk scales in the press for another project. Or back up in case something goes wrong. If nothing gets in the way I should wrap this up by Friday night. Keep your fingers crossed and stay tuned!

[Shorthairbirddog]

I should have played hooky from work today. Would have much rather been chasing turkeys then running around a rail yard all day. Thinking that I will play hooky from home tomorrow afternoon and make up for not chasing them today.

That elk is gonna look good on there.

[#goldpan]

Funny you mention chasing turkeys. I took this picture behind the shop a minute ago.

Right after I put the camera away Boomer chased this guy and tried to take him down! Boomer is my 7 pound feral cat. Wished I could of taken a pic when he tried to take on this turkey. A moment after that he tried take down a jake....

Boomer stalking a squirrel. He almost caught one a week ago, got a mouthful of tail fur!

[Shorthairbirddog]

Now I have to go tomorrow...can't let a cat win.