Incredibly Rare Knife on eBay - Holley Charter Oak(Possibly)

[1967redrider]

...........wonder if it was a live oak???.....sure looks like one???............... ...................

Live Oak was used for tall ship building, easier to bend. Since Live Oak doesn't lose it's leaves, I think the Carolinas would be the furthest North you might find one. But I might be wrong?


Thanks, galvanic, for sharing those pictures.

[btrwtr]

I noticed the book cut says that the knives were available in two sizes. The OP knife is stated to be 3 1/8" closed and Mike's is 3 1/4" closed. Very different looking knives.

[galvanic1882]

Yes I've noticed the difference in the look of the knife but that does not bother me, knife looks right. Not sure I can get what they want for it though? Might go back to them.

[tongueriver]

...........wonder if it was a live oak???.....sure looks like one???............... ...................

Live Oak was used for tall ship building, easier to bend. Since Live Oak doesn't lose it's leaves, I think the Carolinas would be the furthest North you might find one. But I might be wrong?

The charter oak was a white oak and was one of a handful of oaks used in shipbuilding. The live oak is only remotely related to the oaks native to the northern states. Live oaks lose their leaves on a rotational basis all year long and are never found north of the Mason Dixon line, or in fact, even close to it. I am always amazed by the attraction to a story on a knife and the willingness to pay for it. But everyone has their own program. I will pay a premium for beauty and condition in a knife pattern from back in the day. Rarity? It perhaps figures in a very weak way. I find this discussion on this knife a bit bizarre. Kinda like an auction for the condom Kennedy used when he 'visited' Marilyn Monroe.

[kootenay joe]

I have just read this entire thread and i do not understand the very high value given to this knife ($20,000).
It is a Holley and they are very collectible. The handles are oak from a famous tree. There are very few examples of this knife 'out there'.
As far as i can see those are the only things that give this knife a value higher than other knives of the same vintage. However a value higher by a factor of 20 to 40 times seems unrealistic to me.
"Unrealistic to me" does not necessarily mean incorrect. More likely it means that i do not understand the extreme high end of the collectible knife market.
Would someone please explain the rationale for the extremely high value of this knife, before i get tempted to buy the special condom (used but only once ?) that tongueriver is promoting.
kj

[JAMESC41001]

I was told to beware of collecting Holley knives because they were so often copies or fakes. I remember reading that Holley sometimes paid cutlers in parts, especially at the end when they closed. The way I understand it is these cutlers bought their own tools to work with them. I always wondered if a knife made at their workbench at home during the same period is truly a fake. I also wonder how much a hardcore Holley collector staring at the last hole to fill in his collection would care. Either way it is a very narrow market. 6k maybe. For 20k I would break in to the govenor's office and saw a leg off the desk. If I split it with him he would probably take the weight off while I saw. Would be interesting to hear what everyone would buy with a 20k budget provided to them. I know what I would get and it's not the one being discussed here.
P.S leave it to Mike to come up with the goods. We missed you at the NY show brother.
Jay

[RobesonsRme.com]

Not a collector or chaser of rare New England cutlery, but prior to Mike's post I was under the impression that no known survivors of the Charter Oak knives existed and this whole discussion originated because the OP knife turned up in an Ebay auction in supposedly immaculate condition.

The 20K dollar price was based on its being the only extant example.

There are certainly sophisticated collectors capable of buying the knife at that price and not even worrying about it. I know one.

The Ebay knife did not sell, as I recall.

Please understand, I'm not calling el toro poopoo on Mike's post. Just relating what my previous personal understood knowledge of The Charter Oak knives happened to be.

And it's possible I'm confusing the no existing examples of The Charter Oaks knives with a Salisbury marked Holley as opposed to Lakeville. My mind does that to me at times. Although Stewart & Ritchie stated the same.

Charlie Noyes

[Miller Bro's]

I have just read this entire thread and i do not understand the very high value given to this knife ($20,000).
kj

Please go back and read page one. The $20,000 value has now been mentioned five times so I need to clarify what I originally said.

I think he was fishing with this auction to see how high a price it would achieve, probably had a $20K reserve on it.

I said he PROBABLY had a $20K reserve on it. I never said it was worth that kind of money and personally I don't know anyone in their right mind that would pay that for one. The OP knife was bid up to $6K and his reserve was not met so I was only speculating what his reserve might be.

Now on to the OP knife, I personally examined the knife it was and is legitimate the real deal a "mint" example complete with original paperwork. As far as I know he still has the knife he did not seem to care if he sold it or not and yes he was the guy that originally listed the knife on eBay that started this thread.

Original documents state knives were made in 1887, 1902, and 1911. The one's I have seen so far all had a sterling silver shield with "Charter Oak" in script.

[RobesonsRme.com]

So I'm totally wrong in my recollection of no existing examples.

The knife Mike posted does not have "Charter Oak" in script.

Charlie

[galvanic1882]

Not all of them were made exactly the same through the years. The other one I saw was marked on the shield the same as this one. Also like I said it's not my knife it's one that I will be helping some one sell!

[kootenay joe]

Thanks for clearing up the "probably $20,000" statement. I went with this figure as it was re-posted a few times and not challenged.
Miller Bro's goes on to say: "Now on to the OP knife, I personally examined the knife it was and is legitimate the real deal a "mint" example complete with original paperwork. As far as I know he still has the knife he did not seem to care if he sold it or not and yes he was the guy that originally listed the knife on eBay that started this thread."

Wow ! That is some fine detective work to actually track down the knife in question and then somehow convince the owner to ship the knife to you for examination ?

D. are you able to elaborate on this at all ?

This is one of the most intriguing knife stories (threads) i have read.
I suggest that as 3 of these knives are now known to exist there likely are a few more out there. Better keep checking ebay listing including those for knife lots like "Bunch of Grandpa's old Knives B.I.N. $25".
kj

[Miller Bro's]

The other one I saw was marked on the shield the same as this one.

Mike is the shield sterling silver on that one?

[Miller Bro's]

So I'm totally wrong in my recollection of no existing examples.
Charlie

Charlie I am going to refer you to your own post on page one for that answer!

[Miller Bro's]

Wow ! That is some fine detective work to actually track down the knife in question and then somehow convince the owner to ship the knife to you for examination ?

D. are you able to elaborate on this at all ?

Yes I can elaborate on this. I didn't track him down or have him send it to me. Just by chance the following month I attended a local knife show, while I was shopping I noticed the knife in a dealer's case and inquired about it and asked if this was the one that was recently listed on eBay. He confirmed that it was and then I examined the knife at that time.

[RobesonsRme.com]

So, did you run to the bank for $6300.00?

[Miller Bro's]

No, I already had it in my right front pocket

[kootenay joe]

Referring to the owner/seller of this Charter Oak knife Miller Bro's says: "As far as I know he still has the knife".
This suggests (or confirms) that the $6300 stayed in your right front pocket and that the knife did not accompany you home.
I had been guessing that you are now the owner of Charter Oak knife but i guess my guess is wrong.
kj

[Miller Bro's]

Roland the knife did not come home with me.

[peanut740]

No, I already had it in my right front pocket

MB,I like the way you roll.

[bighomer]

Yea buddy I'm with peanut , you know how to roll, het it ain't no step for a stepper huh ?

[danno50]

I know this is an old thread, but, I was browsing on ebay and ran across this one.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLLEY-MFG-CO- ... SwIYtdNQHt

[dlr110]

All right, I will be the dummy and ask the question. What is heaven's name makes this a $3,500.00 knife or anywhere near that price. Granted that knife might have a value of 2 or 3 hundred, but I'm not seeing it. I guess I need some basics explained to me.

[TwoFlowersLuggage]

Slapping a "Charter Oak" label on a piece of wood does not make it a priceless historic artifact.

[danno50]

David and TwoFlowersLuggage: did you guys read through the whole thread from the beginning?

[danno50]

I had thought that this was a new example, however, I believe it is the same knife that galvaniv1882 posred on page 2 of this thread, back in Nov of 2016.