Rare Relics

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:13 pm

Electric Cut Co and Walkill River Works HJs. Both second line NYKs eventually.
The Electric is from 1890-1910 when they were made in Newark N.J, before production went to NYK Walden.
The Wallkill has obvious NYK bone jigging, but has a cheaper punch than the usual NYK production, befitting the knife's second line status.
Fran, I will compare the punches for you soon!

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:16 pm

upnorth, here is one hope you can see it. Two clicks help onmy compute.

Stockman

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:17 pm

Sauconian wrote:Charlie,

You didn't show those NYK punches. How can I compare ?

This one's Valley Forge ( curved ) over USA over Cutlery Co. over Newark N.J.

This $10 knife was about all I could afford after the dog leg yesterday !

Fran early 44

That VF for $10 is a good deal, Fran! I'll have to find a Wolfertz to trade you (if you'll trade?)
Charlie (all right, all right, LATE 44!)

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:21 pm

stockman wrote:upnorth, here is one hope you can see it. Two clicks help onmy compute.

Stockman

That's a real nice Keen Kutter, stockman!

P.S. if you trim the margins on your scan, and enlarge to 200% you will get better pics!

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:22 pm

Can you guys tell me about this knife? Age ect. I assume it is a knife made in Walden. Cut my finger scanning it. Thanks upnorth I struggle with my pics I will try what you have said.

Stockman

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:15 am

Sauconian wrote:K7K,

I've never seen a pin that looked so large.

Is that the original, or did someone drop a 16d nail in there ?

Fran

It is likely an old replacement although the blades appear to be original to the knife(same color steel;no gaps).Judging from the ease with which the master blade opens(it has sunk into the handle a bit and requires opening the pen blade first)versus the pen blade I would say the original pivot rivet snapped.Not uncommon on earlier knives to find a temper difference in blade and spring.

OK here's some more:

First is a knife I've had for some time and have no clue as to it's origins.It has what appear to be bone handles that have been repaired with what looks like cutler's rosin.They have birds eye rivets and brass pique work(tiny pins inserted in designs).It has integral liners and bolsters.There is no snap to it and the back of the spring looks as if it were meant to be a thumbnail release although there is no blade pin.The stamping is even more bizarre:a severed hog's head and the name,"BARNERIA".The rear bolster is brass. The construction and pique work would normally date it to the 1840's to 1850's.

The next item can best be described as a club knife.It is cast aluminum(does not look home made)and inside has a clip blde of very good quality in a threaded bushing.whether this bushing was cast,pressed,or threaded in I do not know.It fits very precisely when closed.It isn't new as I've owned it nearly 30 years.No markings.With a thing attached,it could be a lethal weapon in the right hands.

Next up is a multi-blade simply marked,"E.C." or "E.G." and the blades are numbered(4)as are the liners.The handle is one piece of hardwood carved to accommodate the blades.I believe it to be French as I have a similar one(next picture)made with a single piece of horn.The back spring was broken in both knives in the same spot(just behind the ring open).It disassembles via a screw with nut pivot pin.Must have been a nice knife in it's day.

Next is a similar knife marked,"E.Renaud Armes Paris".It is in great shape save the broken spring.Typical French blade grind and polish(like a mirror).Was one of those,"I'll fix it SOMEDAY" knives from 20 years ago.The guy I got it from received it form his grandmother.I also got her Schrade double blade pushbutton with molasses scales and original purse that had NEVER been sharpened.It came from her sewing box and the blades were flattened on the edge from years of cutting thread.The handles had grooves diagonally worn in from thread being dragged across them repeatedly.I found out much later that it is a very rare one in that it has a clip blade rather than a spear blade.The guy who recently wrote the switchblade book said he has never seen a clip blade on a 3 3/8th inch double ender. Oh yes and the blades STILL are dull.

Next is what appears to be some type of industrial knife with a fixed blade on one side and a double edged hook blade held with screws on the other. It is marked, Dan C Laub Minneapolis Minn".No clue as to it's use.

Next is a couple of tin chocolate knife moulds.Found these at an antique shop for 50 cents apiece.

Continuing on we have another kid's toy from McDonald's(I think).A Peter Pan SAK complete with sliding blade(with characters all over it),a purple scoop of some kind,and an alligator wrench(?) maybe.I have several other kid's knives(non metal)that I will post at another time.

Lastly we have a couple of pictures of Woodcraft style knives including the Olcut pictured above.They are an early Marbles,the wood made to look like stag Olcut,a Union Cutlery(identical pattern)with a checkered horn handle,and lastly a straight line Remington RH32.

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 12:17 am

Here's the last two pictures.Didn't realize I went over the limit.

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:22 am

Here is one that was given to me as a Christmas present from my brother-in-law several years ago.Upon opening it I discovered that while the outside was indeed that of a 1957 Chevrolet,the blade was marked,"1953 Corvette".
I didn't think too much about it until a year or so later when the Franklin Mint came out with the 53 Corvette knife.I then took a couple of pictures of it and fired off a letter to the company.
About two weeks later I got a letter signed by the president of the company.In it he stated that they had checked all their remaining stock and all were correct.He offered to exchange the knife for a correct one but I declined.Imagine my surprise when I received a new one in the mail gratis with a note once again from the president of the Franklin Mint.
I definitely know that this one is one of a kind.

Gr8Scout · Post by **Gr8Scout** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:41 am

knife7knut, I never thought of the Franklin mint knives as the least bit collectible. No good reason for that and I like this one you have shown us. I like it a lot. thanks for showing it to us.
Phil

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:25 pm

Great thread.

Here is something I can contribute, tang stamped ULSTER/NKIFE Co/N.Y.
LT told me once that it is an actual stamp from the factory. I forgot all the details about what he told me because the only thing that is shorter than my memory is my........um..........er..........I forget.

Dale

Paul M · Post by **Paul M** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:37 pm

Here's one that is for sure a relic and rare. Measures 4 1/4" closed and 7 1/4" open - once you figure out how to open it! You slide the front bolster out and it releases the bottom side and you swing it open to reveal the blade to push open then slide bolster back to lock - see photos. Not sure if this is a one of a kind or not. I posted it a while back in the Q & A forum and did not get any info on what it is. What do you guys think?

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:57 pm

Nice one Dale;now you got me looking through all of my Ulsters to see if I might have one too.Doubt that will happen;looks like a one time thing.

OK this is probably going to take two posts as I have a lot of pictures.I started going through a lot of my older knives today because:the weather outside is lousy;my wife is sick;there was no job today.Most of these are pearl handled knives and there are a few I have no info about.

First up is a small two blade made by the Automatic Knife Co. of Middletown CT.It is NOT an auto in the modern sense of the word but rather a unique way of opening the blades.This knife was made before 1900.The tab at either end of the knife when pushed snaps the blade out to about a 10 degree angle;allowing you to grip the blade and pull it the rest of the way.Very unusual to find one in this shape.

Next is an unsharpened Empire Winstead CT two blade with pearl scales and sterling silver beaded bolsters.It came with it's original suede pouch.

Next is a group of knives by various makers that share one thing in common:an unusual fluting cut into the entire side of the knife.Not sure when that was popular.

The next is in really bad shape but I had to buy it(wasn't much).A Needham Brothers 3 blade;one of which is made of ivory.

The last one is unusual in that what looks like the pen blade is actually the master blade;the bigger blade is a file.Made for Hoffritz(one side is stamped,"RITZ" brand).

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:11 am

A few more from the vault:

One of my oldest knives:a 2 blade congress by R.Bunting and Sons Sheffield.The small blade at first looks to have been broken and re-profiled but on closer inspection,I can see no evidence of that.I have also in my collection an I*XL 3 blade of the same era with an almost identical blade.BTW this knife dates to around 1840.

Next is a Schrade with some interesting scales.The pictures can't quite bring it out but one side is a really fiery pearl and the other a black pearl.Never seen these two colors together on one knife.

Next is somewhat of a mystery.It is a 4 blade congress with the markings(on all 4 blades),"SILVER STEEL" on one side and the image of an owl on the other.I have no info whatsoever on this knife and would appreciate it if anyone has.

Lastly a combination tool.Marked"W & G VOGEL VOHWINKEL" on the master blade.There is a slide button on the top that releases the spring loaded handle for the toenail clippers that are partially concealed in one end. Again no info on the name.

knowtracks · Post by **knowtracks** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:55 am

Those are some rare old gems k7nut! Thanks for taking the time to post them all.
Now tell me what do you think the ivory blade was used for?

Dave

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:04 am

for cuttin the cheese!

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:07 am

knowtracks wrote:Those are some rare old gems k7nut! Thanks for taking the time to post them all.
Now tell me what do you think the ivory blade was used for?

Dave

Glad you enjoyed them Dave.I have been re-cataloging my small knives all day and haven't even scratched the surface. The other day I posted some pictures of my knife cabinets;the one I was doing today was the small 12 drawer one.Problem is there are nothing but small knives in it(nearly 600).I managed to do three drawers which were mostly pearl handled pieces.

The ivory blade was used to peel soft fruit such as apples,peaches,and the like.

Tonight I am cataloging medical instruments and manicure sets.Thankfully I don't have a whole lot of either;several sets and some loose instruments.

Have to call it a day as I have a car to stripe in the morning for an afternoon delivery.I'm only working a couple days this week and the dealer is impatient on this one.Talk to you later.
Ray

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:42 am

very cool knives guys, ray those are spectacular!

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:20 pm

Sure a lot of stuff going on today. First I am attaching a few pics of an early EC Simmons ivory with the same tang as the one UPNORTH posted I included a pic of a period box. Also a pic of an unusual pattern Napanoch HJ . I have others but this was handy and there is quite a bit to touch on today. So perhapes I can just start with the items that caught my eye. Your old pearl Wiltzen patent is a dandy so here are some others including a Wiltzen, hatch, levering and a gold pellet lift. Since I am just about out of pic room I will do another post for some of the other items mentioned. LT PS I do not have a Peter Pan Knife. I also put in a pic of a beat up Leppington ( old english variation of a ring turn ).

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:36 pm

Clip blades were used with the 3, 3/8" single blade Schrades ( in this case the turkish style clip ) rather that the doubles . Also these were used in the double blade 3,3/4" versions as well as the single blade versions in this case it is the shorter more standard style. However while not as common the clip was also used in the 3,3/8" double version as well I have attached pics of all of these as well as a 3,3/8" which appears in my book. LT

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:13 pm

Here is another simmons that fell out when I was putting the other stuff away, I see that there is a metal camper die set on so i have included some more sets of these, a pic of a tooling display that is in my living room ( Now you know why I live alone except for my two cats ) The cats do not seem to mind. Also a couple of the the forms which were used to make the display case inserts and a clampack mold which was used to make that type of packaging.

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:05 pm

Hello Stockman in reference to your question regarding the Keen Kutter you posted. This marking was used from the late 1800s until 1940. Your is a later one that can be determined by the shape of your knife ( I am posting a pic of the similar earlier style. ) It is a bit different, these earlier ones were made by Walden knife when Simmons owned it. Winchester eventually moved all the machinery to CT. In or around 23. I am also including a pic of a Schrade Cut knife. This is the style the earlier knives evolved into. It is also the precurser of the 2 OT which was simply a Schrade Walden ( Post 46 ) actually 1959 version of this evolution. Blade styles will vary spear or clip as well as handle material but what we are looking for here is handle shape. Now that being said your knife would have been made in Walden but not by Walden knife it would have been a Schrade contract to Simmons. Probably made between 1924 to 1940 ( closer to the later.) I have also included a pic from a 1924 catalogue ( this would have been after Walden closed actually just about that time ). This should have been when Simmons started contracting. Now over the years several firms made KEENs on contract however this is my opinion ( for whatever that is worth.) LT

lt632ret · Post by **lt632ret** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:41 pm

Paul M All I can tell you is that it is not unique I have seen it somewhere. I wuv weird mechs. I would suggest Levine on Blade forums. I some how seem to remember it coming up. Knife appears 40ty or 50tys ish. I believe an import ,any marking?? I know it has nothing to do with it but I keep mentally relating it to a neft ( which is completely different ). Sorry I will remember it should I run across any info. LT

stockman · Post by **stockman** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:05 pm

Thanks LT, I was way off on this one I thought it was early like the ones you pictured in your post, I have these pictures, but could not find the exact knife in my references. I actually thought this knife was close to 1900. Thanks for the help on this one. It is a favorite of mine.

Stockman

Paul M · Post by **Paul M** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:52 pm

Many Thanks LT, the knife has no markings to be found. I will have to figure out how to post it on blade forums. Maybe a little Crown Royal will
jog your memory.

ea42 · Post by **ea42** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:20 pm

What a great thread! I've somehow completely missed this one. LT, how did I miss that Orange Cut? What a great, rare knife! I've only seen one other, which also had a funky cell handle. Also, who was D&S? I may be having a brain fart but the initials don't ring a bell. By the way, thanks again for the incredible tour. There was so much to see I think I may have retained a quarter of it if I'm lucky. Folks, LT is the most generous, gracious host you could meet, and what a collection!!

Stockman, Simmons made two versions of that knife, the earlier had steel bolsters and the later had N/S. If you hold a small magnet, such as a fridge magnet to the bolsters, you should be able to determine which it is. The earlier knife was made between 1905 and 1916, the later was made between 1921 and 1929. I'm guessing you have the earlier due to the ebony handles. The odd thing is the Simmons stamp with the Keen Kutter cap. Generally the Keen Kutters were all stamped as such and i'm wondering of the Simmons stamp pre-dates the Keen Kutter one. LT, here's a shot of the Keen Kutter/Schrade contract knife sans OT pre-cursor. The one stockman has posted is somewhat fatter and stouter, with a strong rat tail (which is quite worn or polished off)

Eric