Learning to spot a real Russell Barlow

royal0014 · Post by **royal0014** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:34 pm

Saw this 'un on fleabay..... let's put those 'fake Russell barlow' skills to the test...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111322758843?ss ... 1423.l2649

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goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:10 pm

Wow now that's a Russell for sure royal0014. I think I have a couple of Russells. Real and fake. I'll try to dig 'em out over the weekend and post some photos.

Randy

Paladin · Post by **Paladin** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:32 am

Guys,
Please take a look at the Russell photos below. It doesn't really look especially old. The blades were likely darkened. The pin appears placed correctly.
Is it real? Is it Schrade, which I think not? Any ideas as to age?
I intend to put it on eBay but would like to be accurate in my description.

Ray

goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:42 am

Sorry about not loading my Russell pictures, my internet went down Saturday morning and I just now got it back up. I have trying to use my not so smart phone or maybe I'm the not so smart one..... I'll get it this done weekend for sure! Ray, the knife you show looks re-handled, with polished bolsters and the pins appear to be to large and new for the straight line tang stamp. Blades look good! Jus

t my 1/2 cent worth.....

Randy

jon_slider · Post by **jon_slider** » Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:08 am

Paladin wrote:Is it real?

imho it is a 1970s German replica.

Blade pivot Pin in the wrong place, tang stamp is for pre 1933 but middle pin is not centered, so not original. The pen blade has the wrong shape tang for a USA Russel, very German imo.

Still a very nice knife with very full blades, I would guess its a Boker, with beautiful bone handles.

I believe the following pic is a genuine pre 1933, straight line Russell, you can see the pivot pin is in a different position, closer to the head of the arrow, and you can see the middle handle pin is centered.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xZw2 ... G_6962.JPG

This next pic shows a German boker in the middle, notice the pen blade tang is similar to your Russell, and different than the other two American bokers. Also note the Left Boker, the one with a Clip point Primary, has handle pin positions similar to your Russell, also note your knife has spun pins like the boker. Russell did not spin the pins, nor did they use brass.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vw6o ... G_8231.JPG

And here is the tang stamps, bolster pin position, and shape of pen tang on my believed original straight line Russell
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Utm2 ... G_0952.JPG

I still think your knife is a solid user and well made replica from quality materials. Worth about $60 imo.

One other thing to check is whether the pen blade and its spring are of thinner stock than the Primary blade and spring. One thing Ive noticed about Boker is the pen and primary are equal thickness stock. Whereas Russell Primary stock is thicker than pen.

Look at the space between the liners. On the left is the Clip blade Boker (same one as on the left in the 3 group shot) with equal thickness, on the right the Russell with thicker primary on far right.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tsJ9 ... G_0954.PNG

One more difference, the bone handled Clip bladed Boker weighs 72 grams, the Russell weighs 80 grams, and in addition to thicker primary blade and spring stock it also has thicker bone handle scales than the Boker

noddy · Post by **noddy** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:57 pm

Thanks for this. Getting an old Russell has been high on my list of priorities for a while now.

Mind that Camillus at the top still looks a nice knife

goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:51 pm

Well here are some of my Russell barlows. The salmon colored one has been rehandled. The blades look as if they were never used!

jon_slider · Post by **jon_slider** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:19 pm

thanks for sharing pics goldpan, youve got some with nice full blades, both in straight line, pre 1933, and curved stamp models

I imagine you know this one is not original
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... &mode=view

its bolster, blade nick, and tang stamp resembles the small Barlow in this 1998 commemorative set made by Colonial
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... .JPG?rt=nc

Ive never seen one with the metal handle before, I suspect its German. Could you show the tang stamp please?
http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... &mode=view

goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:45 pm

Here are the rest of my Russell knives Fixed blades too! All the folders are German made by Boker.

jon_slider · Post by **jon_slider** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:54 pm

goldpan wrote:Here are the rest of my Russell knives Fixed blades too! All the folders are German made by Boker.

Thanks for clarifying that you are posting German Replicas, not Original Russells.
Those Bokers are nice, I especially like the stag.

check me if mistaken, I believe Boker does not use thicker stock on the primary blade, they use the same thin stock as on the Pen blade. That may be a cost saving strategy.

Most other Barlows and Jackknives I see, use thicker stock on the Primary blade. This is true for USA Original Russells as well.

goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:55 pm

and last but not least! The hunting knife in the sheath is a Boker too, but made in Argentina. The two wood handled fixed blade knives are USA made by Russell/Dexter.

And for your viewing pleasure a side by side comparison of the a German made Russell Barlow and a Boker Barlow.

goldpan · Post by **goldpan** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:04 pm

Your right on with your observation about blade thickness on the Bokers. I have collecting Russells for a long time. My current collection is less than half the size it used to be. Some where I have a straight line Russell barlow with a missing pivot pin. The blades nice as is the frame a handles.... got to find that one and post the pics here. May be awhile though I am having hand surgery on Wednesday to remove the bone that forms the socket at the base of my left thumb. Off work for three months. As soon as I get the hand in cast (about four weeks) I will try to get back to being more active here.

Randy

jon_slider · Post by **jon_slider** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:24 pm

I hope your thumb heals quickly. And thanks also for the excellent side by side shots of Bokers and Russell replicas, very informative for anyone who comes across this thread.
Happy Easter!

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:37 pm

Figured I would bring this excellent thread back up and add a Russell Barlow I just picked up. Pretty sure this is an original one in decent condition, blades are close to full, uncracked translucent smooth bone. Looks like it sat many decades and the joints rusted, flushed a lot of rust from the joints so snap is a little light with some play.

#goldpan · Post by **#goldpan** » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:17 pm

Thats one nice looking Russell Barlow you got there!

Thanks for sharing.

Tsar Bomba · Post by **Tsar Bomba** » Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:47 am

Here's another one for the German Russell tang stamp collection, along with same knife but Boker-branded and clad in Delrin. The five-feather arrows seem to always be a dead giveaway of a German build.

lcaseyb · Post by **lcaseyb** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:00 am

I am brand new to pocket knives. I wanted a Russel Barlow for the trivial reason that I heard "Barlow knife" mentioned in a song. This was an interesting thread, but I just forgot everything I read. Plus I have to look up a lot of new words pertaining to pocket knives. Is there a simple list of things to avoid when looking for a Russel Barlow while in antique stores?

Thanks.

Larry

bighomer · Post by **bighomer** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:52 pm

Larry look at pictures, if you know anyone that collects Russells ask if you can look them over. Learn to read knives , ask specific questions of knowledgeable people, there is no easy road in collectables of any antiques and more than likely you will get bit at some point. A lot of times you can find old used up knives at a decent price study them. Learn learn learn knowledge is king. Have fun.

lcaseyb · Post by **lcaseyb** » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:07 pm

big homer, I agree that I have to read through this forum and learn knife language. I just thought that if such a list existed, it could steepen my learning curve, and save me money in the antique stores.

I appreciate your reply and I will get busy with pocket knives 101.

Thanks

Tsar Bomba · Post by **Tsar Bomba** » Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:15 am

Thing about Russell Barlows, and lots of other cutlers in general, is that trademarks and factories changed so often and were so undocumented in many cases during and after the industrial revolution that many of these companies both in the USA and abroad never really enjoyed a properly-curated company/brand history. So the entire concept of "real Russell Barlow" might even be up for some interpretation.

There's really no 'cheat sheet' short of bringing a smartphone with AAPK in the browser and searching to see if there are examples and any trivia that have already been discussed. If not, widen your search to Google. And always remember: The ultimate value of any knife is whatever price a seller and buyer can agree upon.

These are my Mystery Russells, both considered for the purposes of this threads "fake" Russells I believe. The green daddy Barlow is clearly some sort of modern knockoff/repro/whatever, but it's built solid, looks good, and has this awesome oversized Zulu spear blade that snaps like a gator. The white bone Barlow seems to tick some of the "real Russell" boxes but has a long pull and that offset stamp on the pen blade where the L runs off the edge. For what I paid the rule "If it seems too good to be true it probably is" seems to apply. Still, it's another rock-solid knife and it looks awful purdy.

Darrellt · Post by **Darrellt** » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:09 am

When Russell Harrington repaired knives for Bear Cat club members in the 1950s the replacement blades were stamped with the R and a diamond on each side . These examples are very hard to find but I was able to buy one . The stamp is very worn but readable . Hoping to find a better one but haen't yet . I am 75 and have seen a lot of Russells and know the frame is an original . While the 1998 remakes did have this stamp no one should be fooled by those . I agree that 75% of so called originals ran on Ebay are either modern copies or out right counterfeits . Saw one sell for $140.00 as an original that even a novice should have known better . Middle pin not centered and the blade pin was not even close to proper position. Looked brand new because it was. "Let the buyer beware" !!!

aelislaurel · Post by **aelislaurel** » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:41 pm

This was such a good thread - are any of you still active? New to antique Small Russell Barlows but after all the combined detailed info, I've spotted fakes in the wild. But what about this one?

Someone previously said "First Red Flag is that it's photographed on Red!"

1. Pins are centered
2. Pins are nickel, not brass
3. Straight tang mark in appropriate font
4. Appropriate amount of pitting
5. Appropriate color and texture of saw cut bone

Looks like the edge has been reshaped with wear over the years... but... I'm still stopped by that RED BACKGROUND.

Real or Fake?

Miller Bro's · Post by **Miller Bro's** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 am

It's real, also the pins are steel not brass

Red background means nothing.

aelislaurel · Post by **aelislaurel** » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:12 pm

Miller Bro's wrote:It's real, also the pins are steel not brass

Red background means nothing.

Was wondering about that - previous poster specified nickel but that is too soft of a metal for a working pin.
Thanks for confirmation!

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:30 pm

Thought I would post this on the thread. Have it in a separate thread but the info should probably be here.
These blades were acquired some time ago from a friend and there has been some discussion as to what they actually were used for. The large pivot holes,the stamped numbers, and the unusual cut outs on some of the blades(possibly to locate the position of the nail mark)suggest they may have been tools used at the factory. The different stampings may be of help as well.