Empire Knife Company

[gsmith7158]

Joe, Lee a couple od nice ones there.
I just went back through this thread this morning and there are some great knives posted here.
Thanks for bringing this back to the top.

[wlf]

All these are Empire made.This is from a Shapleigh catalog,and a close up of the type at the bottom of each DE page.

[Dinadan]

This thread has been an education for me. Thanks to all who contributed info. I do not think I have ever actually held an Empire knife, hopefully I will come across one someday.

[kootenay joe]

Lyle, your Empire Whittler is a very fine example of a very fine knife. I have not seen that Empire pattern before, might be rather rare ?
kj

[bighomer]

Lyle that's a beaut.

[gsmith7158]

Lyle those are great ones. Empire had some of the prettiest jigged bone of the period IMO. This thread has really perked me up. Can't wait to get home and show some of mine.

[wlf]

Thanks Fellas. Joe ,it's a big whittler at actually 4 1/4' I think on the same frame as their farmers jacks. A frame size and design that Schrade later used.

Both Empire and Schrade place the pivot pin of the main pruning blade in the meat of the bolster and not in the rat tail grove as all others I have seen. But they made their frames longer to accommodate this feature.

[danno50]

Great knives, Lee and Lyle!
Dan

[LongBlade]

Thanks all for the comments on the Empire made Shapleigh Cattle knife... ... I got the best photos I could of that one knowing it is celluloid and no doubt can go "poof" due to the celluloid at any time... no doubt there has been some shrinkage on it at the bolsters and the top of the spey blade looks abit darker (but hasn't changed at all since I have owned it for the last 6 months or so) - the other blades and liners look fine so far - the blades do sport a deep grey patina and it is important to point out that the original owner of this knife did EDC it for many many years... I keep a close eye on this one and have it sitting within almost a daily view but not in the sun and in an area that doesn't change much at all in temperature or lighting... should it really start to outgas which is always a possibility and so unpredictable I will have the celluloid pulled and the knife rehandled in old ironwood that belonged to my Dad almost 50 years ago which will at least still make the knife special to me... Did I ever say I hate celluloid ... but for cattle knives celluloid was not unusual if you read BRL and this knife did not cost me alot in the end so I couldn't resist ...

Lyle - those are some real awesome additions buddy So the 2 farmer's jackals are indeed of interest to me as Empire made Shapleighs... One with a bar shield (though I have seen similar on knives stamped Empire which I have a few) but especially the second one in terms of the shield!! On the 2nd knife does the diamond shield have a DE inside?? Can't quite make it out... that would kill my suspicion that Empire made Shapleighs sported a diamond shield but they were plain and not stamped but I am not surprised that sometime during the Empire production of these that DE diamond shaped shields were used... just curious if you know... Also that Serpentiner whittler is very cool and different - if it wasn't marked as a whittler I would almost call it a wharncliffe stockman ... thanks for sharing that one ...

[wlf]

That cattle knife has caused quite the looks in the knife world,but to keep your head below the clouds,your DE shield hypothesis is in a leaky cup. I grin
The catalog cut in the Col. Mayes book looks like a plain shield.

But how about this DE shield on this 1800s DE...

The one you asked about and a couple more ,last two being Schrades,still 4 1/4"... Notice the pin placement on the pruning end,you can see it on the first and last ones pretty easy.

[LongBlade]

Lyle - - honestly the shield was the weakest part of my hypothesis (something I read from another forum & a post on Empire & Shapleigh - but the shield may have also been pocket worn )... It was based mostly on the punch having the Empire or Alvord patent # along with the swedges of the blades which no doubt were similar to my other Empire patterns... Personally I do see some differences among companies as to the swedge along with the pull... Nonetheless I do have the Col Mays book now and my cattle knife is not in the Shapleigh catalog, but importantly this is only one catalog over many years of Empire made Shapleighs so I am not surprised....

Pin placement is another good point but to me tougher to nail down unless perhaps you look across multiple knives...

Good discussion and food for thought

[wlf]

I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.

I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.

[LongBlade]

I wouldn't doubt your theory of plain diamond shields being Empire made, just not all Empire DE being plain. As you can see I showed two different DE's made by Empire without even a diamond shaped shield, and I expect many more were made.

I think both my whittler and your cattle knife are older patterns, as neither are in Mayes. I am referencing the whittler as DE although it is not marked DE,but listed in Voyles' book as such.

I agree 100% Lyle - pretty evident in Mays book that Empire used different shields for Shapleigh as you say... though as the shields were sketches I just wonder in terms of the diamond shield if the DE was just not sketched into the figures... inquiring minds want to know ....

I always wonder what the original cutlers/workers would say or do if they knew of our discussions - most likely laughing so hard they would be falling down

[gsmith7158]

Here are a few of my Empires.

[philco]

Lyle those are some pretty decent old junkers.


Good stuff my friend.

edit: Lawsy mercy Greg. You got some good stuff there buddy.

[gsmith7158]

A few more.

[danno50]

Greg, you are getting a very nice collection of Empires!
Dan

[gsmith7158]

Greg, you are getting a very nice collection of Empires!
Dan

Thank you Danno. I'm trying but they don't show up everyday,slow going.

[wlf]

Nice collection Greg of a company that made many knives,but more seem to be found as Shapleigh's than Empires!

[Beechtree]

Great collection Greg! I really like the shadow Senator in MOP

[gsmith7158]

Thanks guys! I'm just plugging along. I pick up a good one when I can find it.

[ScoutKnives]

The only Empire I own .

[gsmith7158]

Sk I watched that one lustfully when it was on the bay. Unfortunately I was broke at the time of the auction. She is a beauty!

[danno50]

that Empire pearl Scout is a beauty!
Dan

[FRJ]

Beautiful Pearl, SK.