Herrick Hardware; Waco, Texas.

[FRJ]

Mark,
your congress jack looks identical to mine, except for the shield.
And the sheepsfoot looks to be the same blade.
The nail picks on my knife seem unusually deep on both blades.
Would you say the same is true of yours?

[jerryd6818]

The top knife is marked Utica in a straight line. I'm not quite sure if it is a reproduction (fake) although I think that it is.

I'm not sure why someone would want to "fake" a Utica. They don't go for much money. No offense intended but I don't really consider a reproduction to be a fake. What was that saying? "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"?

That pattern must have been fairly popular at one time. I just bought an '87 USA Winchester 2921 that looks very much like your Utica, from the bottom bolster shape to the diagonal lines on the top bolster. Both knives look like this picture of a Keen Kutter Gunstock Jack I kyped from an online knife book (sorry, I don't recall the name). I don't know what you call your Utica but I've seen my Winchester called an English Jack, a Coffin Jack, in one source a Coke Bottle Jack and in the Standard Knife Collectors Guide Third Edition a Swell Center Gunstock pattern. I personally don't see the "gunstock" in the knife but what the heck do I know. Confuses me. Compare the three knives and tell me they don't share a genetic relationship.

[msteele6]

jerryd,

I don't consider a reproduction a fake either. My question really had to do with whether Utica actually made the knife. I would call a knife that was made under the auspices and with the permission of the company whose name it bore to be a reproduction (usually called an "authorized" reproduction) and I can see where my wording is ambiguous.

Incidentally,I own a Keen Kutter like the one shown in your post with the bone handles in lieu of wood (K1201) that is that rare knife where you can say it's actually in WORSE shape than it appears in the photo (the blade is down more than it appears).

[jerryd6818]

Oh, I don't know. I'd say the old girl has weathered the years very well. She's still a looker. I would be proud to have her in my accumulation.

[RobesonsRme.com]

Here is the knife that I, at the time of its purchase, thought was a product of The Robeson Cutlery Co. for Belknap Hardware. I had never seen a genuine Pine Knot knife before, so I had nothing to go on, but the bone handles were very evocative of some Robeson bone.

I have Robeson knives with bone like this.

I was unaware of the profusion of congress jacks poring out of whatever hole they were coming from at the time.

Since joining AAPK and having participated in more than one discussion concerning these knives, I removed its photo from my website and the knife is no longer in my rolls.

The tang stamp close up is from the bogus knife. If you're having trouble reading it, it states,
PINE KNOT (arched) over a woodpecker pecking a pine tree (what else could he be pecking?) over Jno. W. Price in script.

Charlie Noyes

[jerryd6818]

I understand what you guys are saying Charlie but isn't that just one swell knife. I like everything about 'em, uh, except maybe the deceit.

[Miller Bro's]

Here are some pictures of an original Pine Knot pocket knife.

The stamp is light and the center section is very hard to see, the stamp was worn or it was not struck hard enough, both tangs are stamped.

The stamp on the counterfeit knife the letters are thicker, it is not the same.

The bone handles are not the same either.

[RobesonsRme.com]

OK. Does anybody but me see the half nude ConeHead looking back over his left shoulder etched on the face of the blade in picture number three?

Or, have I just been looking at too many photos on AAPK?

MB, I wonder who made that knife for Belknap?

Jerry, I'd like this knife a lot more had I bought it for what it's truly worth, instead of what I paid for it.

Charlie Noyes

[jerryd6818]

Charlie, get professional help. Soon.

Dimitri, you're right about the bird. The back of the bird in the phony is straight and it's curved like Charlie's imagined half nude ConeHead on the real knife.

[Paladin]

Actually, I think Charlie nailed it on the cone head thing!

[JustADude]

I have a few Pine Knots. Two have good stampings, one is real clear. I will post pictures later, but I can tell you now that they look like Miller Bro's knife, and not like Charlie's.

[JustADude]

Here is a picture of my Pine Knot with the best stamping. I can probably get a better picture if anybody asks. If you click this picture it should enlarge and is pretty clear. I have three other Pine Knots. The stamping on one of them is pretty good and the other two are good enough for me to know that all four are the same.

[JustADude]

Same knife, better pciture. In my life I have held five Pine Knots in my hand. All five were stamped just like this. Regarding the picture that Charlie posted here, I have seen a picture of a knife with that stamping once, and that knife was also mint or near mint. So.......

[Miller Bro's]

Dude,

Thanks for posting a picture of your tang stamp.

Here is a side by side comparison of the two.

Note the curvature of "Pine Knot" on the fake stamp, also the bird is different, as are the letters.

Very easy to see when you know what to look for.

[JustADude]

I found that other picture. It was on this site and it was a mint pearl.

http://www.allaboutpocketknives.com/kni ... 99&start=0

I can't say for sure that it is fake, but it sure looks like it when I have seen five old Pine Knots in real life with one stamping and then I see pictures of two mint knives that have a different Pine Knot stamp. If there are/were some around that are clearly old knives and had that questionable stamp, that would change the story, but so far I haven't seen one.

And getting back to the original knife and point in this thread, the fact that Charlie has an identical knife that seems to be fake speaks to the authenticity of the Herrick Hardware knife in question. Does that make sense?

[Joe Dirt]

O.K. folks, here's the PAXTON stamp all cleaned up.
The cleaning efforts were all in vain as to reading the stamp more clearly -
Now I've got shinny rust pits!
The first pic I posted is more legible.

Anyhow, the stamp is a straight line stamp on 4 lines.
It's different than the other stamp with the curved stamp:

PAXTON
AND
GALLAGHER CO.
OMAHA

..... Joe

[jerryd6818]

Okay, the Pine Knot discussion has been over for a couple of months but I stumbled across this eBay listing and remembered this thread. Can anyone tell me what's up with this "Pine Knot" knife? (Yeah, I see it's doodlefroodle )

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NM-VINTAGE-80S- ... 4ab1af2b8e

The knife looks like a Schrade to me.

[RobesonsRme.com]

I don't know who made them; it might have been Camillus or Schrade, but the knives are legitimate Pine Knot knives made for Belknap Hardware in the last few years leading up to their being bought out by Ace Hardware. I think that occurred about 1988 or 89.

You'll see them in black and yellow handles; might have been some other colors, I'm not sure.

I've also seen similar stock knives with a red/oxblood colored bone and a round Belknap shield, and they were all stamped "Primble" or "Belknap". There were some other patterns similarly made at that time.

Charlie Noyes

[FRJ]

Here's one I bought from SMKW sometime in the eightys. There are better built knives.
Mine is 4".

[knifeaholic]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NM-VINTAGE-80S- ... m4ab1af2b8

Made by Colonial for SMKW in the late 80's or 90's.

[jerryd6818]

Thanks fellas. It's enticing. I may be turning into a tang stamp collector with no focus.

[chetr1200c]

i loved reading this entire tread, even the slight meanderings were entertaining.
sad to see that even some of the more knowledgeble people get the lights dimmed at times. but it is what brings topics like this to the forefront. i know for darn sure that i own a few unscrupulus reproductions. but i probably will never know which ones unless i see something similar in discussions like this one.
a big thumbs up to everyone here , thanks for the article
btw, at least doodlefroodle, what a name, said in his knife marquee that it is a 80's pine knot.

[Aimus Moses]

dcgm4,

Here is a picture of my Paxton & Gallagher congress jack. I decided to throw in a couple of other knives. The Eureka jack is marked Shapleigh and I have seen others exactly like it.
The top knife is marked Utica in a straight line. I'm not quite sure if it is a reproduction (fake) although I think that it is. If anyone knows for sure I would appreciate them telling me.

Thanks

Mark Steele

P.S. this is the first picture I've uploaded that I actually took myself so please forgive the quality (my Blackberry). If you click on the picture it enlarges fairly nicely.

MS

MS, I have a Utica equal end knife with wood handles that has the same spear blade and a straight line tang stamp as your Utica marked jack knife. IMHO the blade is real, the rest of the knife might be faked, I don't know so I can't say for sure. Maybe they used a real Utica blade and put it in a different frame? Of coarse there's also the chance that Utica used the same spear blade in some of their different pattern knives.

Aimus

[btrwtr]

Resurrecting this old but very pertinent post. Fake knives like the OP and many others posted here have been around for some time now. I have my ideas of where they came from but the fact that they do exist in the market place is the important factor. There are several popular patterns and brand names some of which have been posted here.

Here is a brother to the fake OP Herrick that is currently for sale on eBay. Nice looking knife but not old or original to Herrick Hardware. Doesn't look like anyone has taken the bait yet. Could have been some offers though.

Take a close look as all of these fakes I have seen have that looks new is new appearance to them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-HERRICK-HD ... SwOVpXdv6N

[FRJ]

Thanks for posting on this old thread, Wayne.
Another interesting Herrick Hardware stamp. And a pricey one too ............
I wonder if the seller is a AAPK member.