Knife Steel

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:25 am

Can someone tell me if D-2 tool steel is like carbon steel in a Case XX CV, or like stainless steel? I don't think I have a knife with D-2 tool steel blades. Does it turn darker with use like carbon steel? Thanks. duffy.

Ringmaster · Post by **Ringmaster** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:01 am

Hiya Duffy,

D-2 is a cold work, tool steel. (Cold work vs. Hot work - think how hot a drill bit gets, when drilling metal). The chromium content is pretty high, at 12% - but it's not classified as "stainless". It WILL stain, just not as readily. (To be considered stainless, it has to have 14% chromium.)

Very hard to work, impossible to get a mirror polish. Some custom makers (Bob Dozier, for one), swear by it. Heat-treating is more difficult, but done properly, it does make an excellent blade.

Comparing it to chrome-vanadium is "sort of" oranges and apples. Yessir, it has a goodly amount of vanadium (normally .9%), but the chrome content is much higher. Not many factory knives utilize D-2, I know Queen did - but it's just more difficult to work with.

I, personally, have never tried to use it, but I'm certain it will perform well, if properly worked. For stainless steel, I'll choose 440-C or AUS-8, and non-stainless, O-1 or 1095. (That's just personal preference, NOT necessarily the best, but I got good results.)

Technically speaking, D-2 is like neither C-V, nor Case "stainless".

Hope that helps,

JR

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:08 pm

I have a few knives with D2, including some from Canal Street Cutlery (I don't know if they were outsourced from Queen

). I really enjoy using a D2 Drop Point from Canal Street.

It is a tool steel, which is a seperate category from stainless or carbon. A2, W1, W2, and 01 are tool steels used in cutlery also, the W1 and W2 are found in some Damascus also.

JR is correct and D2 steel is more difficult to sharpen than 1095 and many other steels. Once you learn to work with D2, it's hard not to like it.
I made 1 good blade from it, uh er, I made a few bad ones also.

If you don't have a scrap pile, your not taxing your limitations.

Sauconian · Post by **Sauconian** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:28 pm

Duffy,

Now that you know what D2 is, or isn't, I can tell you I have one custom drop point from a maker down there in W.V. It may have wonderful edge holding properties, but as an amature, I find it to be a royal pain in the butt to sharpen.

If you want a knife for an average user, stick to the commoner steels, touch up the edge a little more often, and save yourself a lot of frustration.

If you already have D2, maybe some DMT stones would be the ticket.

Fran

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:19 pm

Thanks fella's, I now know a little more about knife steel than before. Does the ATS34 Stainless Steel hold an edge very well as a worker, or is it more for collector knives? I hate when a knife dulls after only being half way into skinning a deer or other cutting work. I've found that carbon blades with a good edge last longer than most Stainless Steel blades that I've used. I have used one Stainless Steel bladed knife that had a very good edge and held it while working. I bought it right after using it too. Got that ol' fella in the gun cabinet, ready to go when I need it

.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:49 pm

Duffy wrote:Thanks fella's, I now know a little more about knife steel than before. Does the ATS34 Stainless Steel hold an edge very well as a worker, or is it more for collector knives? I hate when a knife dulls after only being half way into skinning a deer or other cutting work. I've found that carbon blades with a good edge last longer than most Stainless Steel blades that I've used. I have used one Stainless Steel bladed knife that had a very good edge and held it while working. I bought it right after using it too. Got that ol' fella in the gun cabinet, ready to go when I need it .

ATS-34 is the Japanese version of the American 154CM made by Crucible Steel which is a modified 440C. Typical hardness is 58 to 60Rc. I have never had a problem with either steel.

Good stuff!

I just found the below information.

154CM: Carbon-1.05, Chromium-14.00, Maganese-0.50, Molybdenum-4.00, Silicone-0.30, HRC-58-60

ATS-34: Carbon-1.05, Chromium-14.00, Maganese-0.40, Molybdenum-4.00, Phosphorus-0.03, Silicone-0.35, Sulph- 0.02, HRC-58-60"

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:04 am

Hukk, isn't the 154CM the new steel that Case is using in their new knives?

sunburst · Post by **sunburst** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:17 am

I'm a big ATS 34 Steel fan, Schatt & Morgans File & Wire series uses almost all ATS 34. Tony Bose uses only ATS 34 as well as a lot of the custom knife makers...

Great stuff in this topic, the kind of things I need to save to the hard drive..Thanks for asking the question Duffy..

Sunburst

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:23 am

No problem sunburst, hey when you don't know, you gotta ask right? Now for another ?, the Steel Warrior knives I see on E-bay, do they use any of these Stainless Steels? I see where they're tested, according to the info on these knives.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:40 am

Duffy wrote:Hukk, isn't the 154CM the new steel that Case is using in their new knives?

I don't know for sure. Maybe someone else can help us out here. It is virtualy the same as ATS-34, Heat treat is really the same.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:43 am

Duffy wrote:No problem sunburst, hey when you don't know, you gotta ask right? Now for another ?, the Steel Warrior knives I see on E-bay, do they use any of these Stainless Steels? I see where they're tested, according to the info on these knives.

They are by most acounts 440A. It's not a bad steel in the right hands. 56 to 58 Rc is OK in those knives. I hate to say this but they do put out a darn good knife.

Duffy · Post by **Duffy** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:29 am

So their (Steel Warrior) blades are tested for hardness like they say? I've seen a few patterns that they make that I like but was always afraid to buy one thinking they are made by or made like those rough riders and cheaper Marbles knives.

Hukk · Post by **Hukk** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:52 am

Duffy wrote:So their (Steel Warrior) blades are tested for hardness like they say? I've seen a few patterns that they make that I like but was always afraid to buy one thinking they are made by or made like those rough riders and cheaper Marbles knives.

Yes, there is a little sticker (Yellow and Red) with a point. Exactly how they do their test, I have no idea.

They never will be collectable, they are for using as I can't see a modern made Chinese knife being collectable, they make too many of the same pattern. They are wonderful to modify, cheap and the quality is growing. When China can make a cheap knife in 1095 and D2 that is quality made, US companies will be in trouble. That could be as little as 10 years, maybe less. 1095 is fairly cheap.

The last time I did a test with 3 or 4 knives of the same pattern (saddlehorn) Steel Warrior came out on top even though I did not want them to.

They are much better than Rough Riders, the saddlehorn had shiney jigged bone handles that I really didn't like but fit and finish were better than the others. The blades were also better and had good snap. The Case knives actually came in last in that category, IIRC, they were as limp as boiled spaghetti

Actually the Case knives had no walk and talk AT ALL! Bulldog fared a little better, in fact the 2005 knives were better than Case.

A recent look (spent about 4 hrs) at Bulldog and Steel Warrior put them even, BOTH better than Case. I did have some Rough Riders, I put them in last BUT real close to Case because the Case Backsprings seemed as if they had not been tempered and heat treated. It is amazing that Bulldog and Steel Warrior look to be #1 and Case and Rough Rider look like DEAD LAST.

This is a new batch of knives I put through some tests every year and the drop off in Case quality seems to be more evident than ever before. I almost have all the knives I need and the above paragraph is some first impressions I have, but will toss that out the window when I start to put the knives through their paces. I need to get a couple patterns from all before I start. But this year Case may finish last. But, no conclusions for now.