Knife for sale

[lt632ret]

I have been remiss in my posting just not enough time. the museum process is continuing and I started putting a few items on ebay ( Tis the season ), Among other things going on. However when I saw this listing I just had to put this on ( SCHRADE STAG PROTO 24K GOLD SCROLLED BUCK KNIFE W/CASE
1 OF 1 ?? FROM THE SCHRADE FACTORY COLLECTION Item number: 230182769553 ) . I have attached a few terrible pics ( I was in a hurry ). Of one of these in my collection, for years I feel pretty sure while fairly rare there are others. In any event I can prove there are at least 2. The piece on ebay was sold originally by ( I believe ) smokey I see it comes with a dandy certificate. It also has a display case ( which was used for the WWII bowies by Schrade ). This is another example of people not knowing what is true and what isn't . I do not believe Smokey even knows what it is doing only that they only had one in the Schrade collection they stuck it in a surplus display case and included a certificate. They were asking around four hundred. I know because someone contacted me and asked my opinion if they should buy it and sent me a pic. Amazing even dealers just accept what Smokey tells them and passes it on. I do not blame the seller he is just going by what he was told and he did put a ? in the ad. It is an example of people not understanding what went on at Schrade and what actually was produced and what real prototypes are. There are so many stories floating around about procedures that I can certainly understand the misconceptions. Smokey is in business the business of selling knives, they say what ever is convenient to do just that. Just like they buy from anyone and will do anything to get and sell, the most knives. I also included a pic of one of the usually blank wood handled bowies which I had them ( Schrade) use the same photo etch tang stamp on when I bought these ( Since most come blank and since I could, I had them dig out the old template as an option on the dozen I bought for posterity ). This is another example of a misconception since most people have never seen this tang on a bowie it is sometimes questioned as ever having been used, again often what passes as reality is really only the reality of convience and the changes of time, kind of like when you played telephone as a kid whispering something into someones ear and passing it along until what comes out makes no sense and has nothing to do with what it started out as. It makes you wonder about how much of what we consider as history actually had to do with how we interpret and accept it. Oh well enjoy the pics. Oh yeah I will take 700 for mine and throw in the same type of display case and a blank certificate that the buyer can fill out themselves and say whatever they want I will even sign it with George Washington, or Babe Ruth or anyones name you want (except mine ). Enjoy the rotten pics. LT

[El Lobo]

LT,

Good to see you posting.

Here is a link.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26fvi%3D1

Bill

[Timstools]

Hi LT & Bill
Thanks LT
Yes I remmember your advise that you did not think it was a prototype (if i remmember correctly you called it a (stone from the Rocky mountians?)

I dont trust these certificates either. I needed further evidence that it wasnt a prototype and your pictures of the one you own convinced me not to purchase. Im very pleased I did not even at the original asking price.

Thanks Tim

[Timstools]

LT
That Schrade Bowie sure is a nice knife and is rare. Your advice meant I had funds to purchase the Smith & Wesson etched Bowie instead, so I thankyou as I didnt
realise at the time but the S&W was an exceptional buy.

Here is another knife which is a bit of a conundrum and i thought you may be able to help with it (or others).

It has 1 0f 1 etched on the the blade (as in photo). But is it really??????
Why would Schrade design a decorative etch as this just to go on one knife??? Alternately does it mean 1 of 1 95th Anniversary, (there was actually only one 95th Anniverary)

This is ambiguous and confusing. Also the number 100 stamped on the bolsters is either the number 001 or 100 depending on which way you read the number (upside down)
Normally the number could only
be read in one dirrection. With this knife the number is placed on the wrong side of the
bolster meaning that it looses all point of refferance. Please see other numbers on bolsters of large photo
to compair. I read it as 001 because the number
would normally be read with the knife held in such a way that the number reads at the bottom (photo up the other way would read 001). The seller reads it as 100.

Does anyone know what Morton Buildings is?

[Sauconian]

Morton Buildings are prefabricated steel ( maybe Aluminum also ) buildings. Purchased as stock designed, or custom to buyer's specs. Usually for light industrial uses.

Fran

[Timstools]

Thanks Fran
We have those over here in Australia as well, all steel pre-fabricated construction materials and less than half the price finished in some cases.
Thanks Again.
Tim

[lt632ret]

Ah welcome to the land of Schrade where anything ( as I often have said is possible ) . However in case this really not that unusual. The first thing to always remember is that nothing Schrade did came down the mountain with Moses nor were they the Denver mint ( which also makes mistakes ). This if I had to guess looks like a Smokey knife. Again on the blind I would say something that was in one of the 27 semi trailers that they bought for 34 thousand dollars Lot number 4 labeled WIP ( work in progress ) appraised at several million and forced to be sold at auction when a pre auction offer from Smokey and Blue Ridge of around 100,000 was rejected by the judge. Then they got it for 34,000 for reasons I have stated and reiterated to many times to go over again. That being said here is your answer ( which as usual will be long winded.) Scrims were done ( usually with a hot steel die made from an artist rendition ). Often the procedure was. 1, subject, 2, artist rendition 3, one done by hand and photo taken then this was sent to Tool and die and the die cut. This die was then sent to Schrade who applied the scrim to as many knifes as the determined would be in the run. The dies cost Schrade around 600 each the application was at 420 F degrees. Blade Etching was also usually done at Schrade I say usually since the stuff like the WWII set were sent out to be done. Etching could be electro or acid . The acid procedure is much more permanent and much more difficult time consuming and expensive therefore the vast majority of knives carried the (originally electro etch and then later the photo electro) etch which if the knife is used is a lot less permanent. This process has been used since Schrades beginning as I said it went from electo to photo electro which was basically a better version of the original process. The third form of marking the knife was the tang stamp which was pressed into the raw blanks. The forth form of marking was actual engraving which if a number or similar was done by Schrade with an engraving machine. Much the same as a jeweler uses. If it were a side plated for ( example NY Walden issue it was stamped into the handle and not done individually . ) Another example of the stamping would be the fancy bolsters used on some of the clasp knives and other issues. They again unless making something new were not done be hand. File work or jimping were done both by hand and by machine jimping ( which I have seem done by a machine) is amazing in fact I watched one of these machines being constructed out of an old drill and some other strangely reworked tooling. Of all these processes the making ( drawing and making a pattern ) for an electro etch is about the easiest and least expensive. Next numbering the bolsters was only a matter of engraving the bolster ( Any jeweler can give you any number you want on a blank ). These are the factors that your knife contains. Scrim dies were expensive but the cost to make one to show a potential customer was minimized since they could make one done by hand. Often the best way to sell a special edition was to show the customer the example. Orginal tang stamps were unusual for people or a series however not unheard of example The New York knife series or some stuff Jim Parker did. Schrade was in business to sell knives and by giving a customer what they wanted they did just that. Now I can vouch on the tang stamps because I have them hundreds perhapes thousands. The scrim dies I also have them in fact I have hundreds of the knife issues in boxes ( NEW ) in which I have placed the one of a kind dies in the box to have save an example of the knife and have the die with it. I have all the dies for all the companies logos again I do not know how many. I also have a lot of examples of the hand scrimed samples. Schrade also had a file of engraving brass templates of companies ect for hundreds of companies ect , I also have them. I did not get the file of photo electro etch patterns. They went with one of the engraving machines . However I have a pretty good idea who did. All that being said the fact is your knife contains the electro etch and a bolster number. If a firm wanted an issue done or in fact if an enterprising salesman got wind of a companies interest or that an anniversary was coming up he could with out much problem have one done up. These were sometimes bought or just as often ended up in a drawer with others until Schrade was sold. Then when all this was gone through by smokey they would offer it as a one of a kind treasure ( which if you are into it I guess it is, however there were a lot of these variations ). Of course if it did come from Smokey they do give a certificate.( that was meant as a joke sorry). Now perhapes this came from else where since its source is my surmise its origin and reason remain the same. As far as the number again on these who knows whatever blank was available , I have often seen 100 on these types of examples engravers whim, again they did a lot of strange things with numbers for various reasons and often changed there policy, code, and reason for doing so again nothing was written in stone. I am including some pics of examples of some of the things I have been referring to. I have also included some pics of a small fraction of the dies , plates ect . I did this just to give an idea of the enormity of the amount of patterns, companies and issues from Schrade for them to turn out an example such as your was not unusual actually it was part of the way they did business. I have many similar ( I really do not know how many similar and variations in most patterns. ) . I hope this helps or at least you find it interesting. LT

[Timstools]

Thanks LT
It looks as if there is a no rule rule with their no rules (excuse the pun). I would have preffered they had rules with some exceptions granted for specific reasons, this would have effectivley made the exceptions even rarer and perhaps they still are its just that one knows exactly why.

I was thinking I would like you to send me one of the dies for my BC lb7 blank knife and you could tell me what temperature to heat it up to and I could try it on the knife.

A mix of unfinished knives from Smoky that were later finished by them in a non standard manner and a mix of finished Schrade knives that were also sometimes a little unusual makes it almost impossible to sort through the chaos. Oh well maybe a hunch will just have to do. Anyway I like knives that defy a logical description.

That hand scrimmed LB7 above is interesting, I had a LB7 sent to a Custom Scrimshaw Artist a while ago and he could not do it becuase the scrim would not hold the ink he said it needed to be ivory. It cost me post to USA & return.

Regards Tim

[lt632ret]

Whats up my pics seem to have evaporated. Did i piss off Bryan? If so sorry. ????????? LT

[Gr8Scout]

Just a bit on the Morton buildings knife. The company I work for has a business relationship with them. I asked one of the supervisiors about the knife. He couldn't remember that one, and I wonder if it is one of a kind. But he did tell me that around 2000- 2001, the company gave a nice Schrade knife to their super's who had not had an injury on his crew for a year.

Many of us have looked up in Bernard Levine's book to see when certain limited edtion/ private contracted knives were produced. It is obvious that the list is very, very out of date, or missing many knives. Particulary seeing that collection LT has of Logo dies and stuff.

Phil

[Timstools]

Thanks Phil much appreciated

That collection of dies LT has is amazing and historical.

Here are a couple of old ended listings of Schrades from same seller for those interested.

Buyer beware.

One he said in Q&A at bottom of listing that it is also a D Holder & Prototype it is numbered 148

http://cgi.ebay.com/Schrade-Factory-pro ... dZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... :IT&ih=009

[Timstools]

It looks like he might have sold it for $700.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... K:MEWA:VRI
Tim

[LRV]

LT,
Pictures are still there. Im looking at them now.
Seems that the pages are centered and they go off screen to the right.
Nice stuff..
TTYL
Larry

[Gr8Scout]

I think whoever got a very nice knife. I'd use the certificate for something disgusting, as the knife can stand on it's own merits.

Most of you have seen my Schrade Bowie, but what the hell, I really like it. Rode on my belt hunting last weekend, but didn't cut anything. Just gives me a good feeling to pack a blade this nice in such good knife leather.

phil