Farmer's Jacks

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:08 pm

Thanks for posting them Lyle - beauties with a cool history

So I am looking at the 3 knives - and I am no expert so take this with a grain of sand

... but the jigging on the top Challenge knife looks different to me - more stag like cuts (longer and in multiple directions) rather than the 2 bottom ones which are more right to left in orientation. But I have seen other Challenge jigged bone jacks that match the bottom 2 quite well (in fact a jumbo which recently went off on eBay 2 weeks or so ago - and will have to check through mine as well).... The bolsters and shields look exactly the same to me but I guess that other makers used these as well when I look back through this thread... the swedges on the hawkbill blade also are slightly different amongst the 3.... I'll take your word it is a Challenge as I haven't seen enough to know for sure... I would be curious if one can really identify a knife from the jigging as an aside - maybe fun to see sometime by just posting multiple jigging patterns and see who can identify what

Personally I think the jigging pattern for a particular company changed over time depending upon who was doing it though some will match and IMO this may indicate a time period when a knife was made... just speculating

btrwtr · Post by **btrwtr** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:28 pm

Awesome knives Lyle!

Wayne

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:33 pm

Thanks fellas for looking.

Lee ,I can't answer the jigging question,I already mulled that ? over. Yes the jigging is not the same,the pile side more resembles NYK,but the frames (small end bolsters) do not match the NYKs or any other maker I own! As a matter of fact almost all makers vary in frame and the subtleties are most noticeable in the small bolster.

Sometimes you can determine makers by jigging,as we know.I know from experience with GECs jigging,it is determined by the operator.The same process turns out different results.I expect much of the bone source for these companies came largely from bone processing companies, such as Winterbottom in England and Rogers here.And I'm guessing some was probably already jigged to the makers specs.JMO

It could be a maker I am not privy to also.Guess what,I may also be altogether wrong. I grin.

I do have a large sample size,but ultimately that just means I have a large sample size.

Dinadan · Post by **Dinadan** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:04 pm

Lyle - I like that Krakauer. Very informative post with the history and comparison to the Challenge knives.

olderdogs1 · Post by **olderdogs1** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:20 am

Great looking knives, Lyle

Tom

FRJ · Post by **FRJ** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:27 am

Beautiful knives Lyle.

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:07 am

Thanks Lyle!! They are farmer jack beauties for sure....

and I also think that Challenge may have made contract knives especially in the later half of their existence...

Just as a related note - I was thinking one way to determine possible knife mfg backgrounds would be to access old company records looking for transactions (and I'm sure many folks may have thought of this already). Some company records may indicate who they did business with in terms of wholesaling etc... I know they exist as I did find the one for the Thomaston Knife Co online (at least in a certain time period) but I didn't join the website as of the moment to gain access (and hope I bookmarked it)... be interesting to see a few of the old maker records if they are available......

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:29 am

Yes Lee that is a great part of this hobby.

Beechtree · Post by **Beechtree** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:51 am

Great knives and fantastic comparison Lyle, I think you might be on the money. While the jigging pattern is different, given the rarity of this pattern of knife, if the frame, shield and bolsters match then Challenge would be likely candidate. Also, I really enjoy the information you have shared. Discovering history is fun!

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:15 am

If like me you really want to delve into this company:

https://books.google.com/books?id=yOIcA ... ny&f=false

http://archives.lincolncountynm.gov/wp- ... -03-07.pdf

http://digie.org/media/15265

http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_fo ... te_uid=248

http://www.wsjhistory.com/freudenthal.htm

https://books.google.com/books?id=kZ7rg ... rs&f=false

https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fkr11

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:19 pm

Lee ,
Here is another old Challenge a friend had found. I had forgotten about it until I was perusing another thread on these I have.No answers about the bone jigging,but it was different at one time on Challenges,and here it is.

This hefty knife has the same deep swedging as the old Krakauer has,which is more indicative of an older knife. This was to allow the thicker blades passage.The later in these you go the thjinner springs and blades used,aka less heft,until Schrade even used a catch bit to allow for a thinner grafting (spey) blade.

I'll post a mark side view,when I get it,but you can see the deep swedging on the pile side.

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:55 pm

Thanks again Lyle for the further info and Challenge pic with an interesting jigging pattern for sure...

The deeper the swedge the more I like some blades - just gives them that extra something

You can no doubt see the deeper swedge as you pointed out... but it doesn't extend quite as far toward the tang - which can be just the fact that these were all hand made and can have slight differences (or its just wear on blades which is the difference)... perhaps and I guess it goes back to who was doing the work in making the blade or even jigging the bone... all speculation here by me of course

....

LongBlade · Post by **LongBlade** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:57 pm

Just saw the mark side pic after posting .... Nice!!

But Lyle you didn't have to take the scale off the mark side for a better look at the swedge

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:24 pm

He still has that one,he likes 'em too.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:23 pm

Latest.

A Western States Boulder Colo. I believe it is Utica made?

#goldpan · Post by **#goldpan** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:20 pm

Man I love these farmer's jacks! You guys have some very cool knives! Someday I'm going to get one for my self! Thanks for sharing fellas.

Randy

carrmillus · Post by **carrmillus** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:54 pm

wlf wrote:Latest.

A Western States Boulder Colo. I believe it is Utica made?

.......wlf, that one is beautiful!!!!.............

..................

dcgm4 · Post by **dcgm4** » Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:28 pm

Awesome, Lyle!

ScoutKnives · Post by **ScoutKnives** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:09 am

Very nice !

djknife13 · Post by **djknife13** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:05 am

A lot of my focus in collecting has been Westerns, and I love farmer jacks. I have never seen a western farmer jack until now. There can't have been many of them made. Awesome knife.___Dave

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:10 am

Thanks Randy and Tommy and Dave and SKs (sorry I forgot your name,I met you and your son last year in Lakeland ).

Dave I said somewhere ,some dealers don't even know what one is.

I also met a guy named Gary ? from Canada in Lakeland last year. A dealer had told me he was a large collector of Western,and he had a table and a Western display( maybe just books ?). I asked him if he had ever seen a Western farmers jack.

He said he didn't think they made one. I told him I had a catalog cut of one,I don't know if he believed me, but one of the days after he told me I was right. He had found the cut in one of his catalogs.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:57 am

A new one.Here we have an anomaly. This A Fields Progress is not the typical approximate 4" farmers jack,being only 3 3/4". Another atypical characteristic is the solid bolsters( no rat tails),which are seen sometimes,but not often.The Holley I have is 3 3/4" .I have no idea who made it.I can't remember if it was John K,Mike L,Roger R,Wade,or someone I missed that alerted me to this one. I have been blessed with a lot of friends looking out for me.I missed out on the S Norvell that just sold on eBay.

wlf · Post by **wlf** » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:01 am

Sterling Cutlery Co Germany.I've found no information on this mark except Goins says F Sterling Company was German and McIllwaine,Linn ,and Hughes had this trademark in NY. So??