Old 1800s Folder from Sheffield - Opinions needed..

[LongBlade]

Well here is an old "battle axe" of a pocket knife. I don't own this knife but am discussing a possible trade (and not a knife in trade and believe me it won't cost much even in a trade). I told you from the beginning that I love old knives with a story, history and character - not all old beat-up knives but those with some historical significance - and on occasion put aside some of the important attributes we all use to choose knives. Anyway this old knife - with iron liners and an iron bolster has a cow horn handle (originally thought it was green bone) in not bad shape on front but there are a few chips out of the back-side of handle and some underlying rust. The length is approx - 5 inches or so, maybe 6. Blade is not bad BUT been sharpened and still is very sharp with a half-stop and great snap opening and closing - like a bear trap LOL... Now here is the catch - check the photo of the tang stamp - you can definitely see it was made in Sheffield England but the letters above it are hard to decipher - maybe a name - maybe some makers cutlery marks which were done in the early days of Sheffield. I think I see REE - but what is before or after it and indeed is it REE?? Don't really know... but appreciate any guesses from those familiar with Sheffield.

Anyway appreciate any comments, and particularly any guesses as to maker and possible age of the knife.... Would you guess mid 1800s?? That is what I am being told and would like to have some opinions. I believe this style of knife was fairly common in the mid 1800s?? Was this considered just a general all around use knife? I think most of it is original and no doubt has had some sharpening as I mentioned...

(PS - some of you guys will be laughing after I posted the thread "what is important to you in a knife" - while I don't usually go for this style I just love the possible historical significance if that can be confirmed and the stories behind it - value is in the eyes of the beholder here and probably mostly based on historical significance - Thanks again!!)

Cheers and much appreciated!
Lee

[knife7knut]

From the look of it, it is possible that it may be late 18th century and the name might possibly be Green. In BRL's book under the listing of late 18th century cutlers there are several Green's listed along with their stamps. One is Joseph Green of Norfolk Street and the other is W.Green & Co on Eyre Street. The second one is a possibility due to the layout of the stamp but they were primarily known for making table knives. The first one was a maker of pocket knives and scissors.
Maybe Smiling Knife on the board here(who is from England) might be able to help. Just my opinion but it looks like it could very well be 18th century.

[knives-are-quiet]

It's a real Lambsfoot knife.
Probably mid to late 1800's.
The handles are horn and they are not chips but bore holes made by insects.
If you purchase it, sharpen her up and carry it in your pocket.
These oldies make excellent every day carriers.

From the wear I'm sure this knife could tell a story if it could talk.

JW~

[LongBlade]

Thanks so much for the replies!!!

Knife7knut - that is a great guess on the maker if it is possibly right and quite frankly after the 2nd "E" it almost looks like a very faint "N" when I enlarge the image... (other guesses from folks have been - Needham or Breeds - but quite frankly I now see a faint "N" ... also thanks knife7nut for perusing the Sheffield makers list - much appreciated... As to smiling-knives -- I also posted this on another forum (as I knew there were collectors from the UK as members - didn't know if that was the case here from my short time on the board) and in fact smiling-knife did reply but only noted the same as JW (knives-are-quiet) in terms of the blade and smiling-knife did not venture a guess as to age - he noted the blade was most likely a lambsfoot or sheepsfoot at one time and that it is possible the tang was once shaved abit to fit the handle, and finally the pivot pin "may" not be original... not sure as to the tang as that view of the knife shows no grind marks when I saw it but it could have been done literally ages ago... and if the knife is as old as it might be I would venture a guess that long ago someone amy have given it a new pin... if only the knife could talk

Also thanks JW - yes could have very well been a lambsfoot at one time especially when you follow the knife edge in the perpendicular view... and though originally I was thinking green bone (as that was what I was told) it is no doubt cow horn now that I have seen it in photos (and someone did note that as well in the other forum) - BTW -It is the backside of the knife with a few chips unlike the bore holes on the front handle... whether it is late 1700s or 1800s I agree 100% - that knife is old and has a story ... no doubt a cool EDC as you mention JW!!

Great stuff... I only recently saw some images of the knives from the Arabia steamboat exhibit in Missouri and this knife looks like it could have been on that sinking boat in 1856 for sure... I think the history part fascinates me as much as the knives when it comes down to collecting, at least a cool component of all of it to me....

Thanks again - and no doubt any other comments, speculations and/or observations from others will no doubt be appreciated!!

Lee

[LongBlade]

Well the knife is mine now .... and quite frankly cost me virtually nothing (just a few old fishing lures that had little value to me as I am an avid fly fisherman). - I know the seller - just a good guy who looks for good homes for his stuff and not a head-hunter for the wallet - he likes trades for his shop... just a nice guy!! Lets say it is a good addition for me as a real oldie with some historical value... haven't seen many like this... (As a quick aside looking at the tang it looks like it was never ground or shaved to fit the handle - looks the same all the way around ) - I can show other photos if anybody is interested...).. Still would love to know the maker but think knife7knut was real close if not spot on...

Thanks again guys!!
Lee

[knife7knut]

Upon looking at that stamp again I think that the cypher after the N is an ampersand(&) so it is possible that it originally said Green & Sons.
EDIT: That should have read Green & Co.

[LongBlade]

Thanks again knife7knut! I thought I was imagining that ampersand - glad you see it as well Now if I can find some more detailed history on this maker - actually did some searching today and did find some images of pocket knives from the late 1700s that were very similar in style, materials and bolster including pivot pin.

Can anybody recommend any books that may be of interest specifically to early knives of Sheffield? I have heard of a few but perhaps somebody knows which are the more informative.

Thanks!

[LongBlade]

Well think I finally nailed down the maker for sure from another collector that I imagine has a real interest in Sheffield knives. I was told Sheffield wasn't stamped on the blades until around 1830... he said the maker appears to be: James GREEN & Co. - pen & pocket knife manufacturers 50 Fargate Pigot's 1841 Sheffield Directory ... pretty cool - as I was told by the guy I received the knife from - this knife probably had some good old stories from the 1800s including the civil war ... This knife is not minty, to say the least, but one of my favorites in terms of history and character!!

One thing I forgot to note about this knife - it has an integrated iron liner and bolster... from my understanding this was only done in Sheffield until about 1860 according to Levine's book...