Confused by ebay, zippo/case

[olderdogs1]

I am very confused and hoping that someone familiar with the folks at Case/ Zippo can help me out. I listed a Case Trapper for sale on Ebay a few days ago. Today Ebay removed the listing saying that the rights owner, Zippo Manufacturing Co, reported it as a counterfeit. As most of you know I do not deal in Fake knives and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with the knife in question. They gave me an email address and said to contact Zippo directly. I contacted them and have not heard from them as of yet. There are a lot of counterfeit case knives on Ebay but I don't think this 1993 Case Trapper was one of them. I am attaching some pictures of the knife in question. Can anyone shed some light on this. I would think it was a scam but Ebay did remove the listing. Any advice would be appreciated.

Tom

[knifeaholic]

Tom; the knife is 100% correct. I had no idea that Ebay did that sort of thing, given the obvious fakes that are out there all the time.

[knifeaholic]

Just to add;

I believe that the etching/embellishing was done post-factory on that knife.

Given that Case/Zippo currently has a licensing agreement to use the John Wayne name and images on knives, maybe what they were complaining about is that this one is unlicensed.

I suppose if you sent the pics to Katie Shonts at Case she could tell you - but it looks post factory to me.

[olderdogs1]

Steve, thanks for commenting. I of course have no way of knowing whether the John Wayne etching is post factory or not but even then I don't personally think they should have had the listing removed and told ebay it was a counterfeit. I had bidders on the knife that of course have been removed along with the listing. I do know that the guy that had this knife bought several of these in different handles and also bought several Nolan Ryan etched Case trappers all bought when they were new over a period of several years. The guy lived in Texas and was apparently a huge fan if both John Wayne and Nolan Ryan. I actually have some more of these that were in his collection that I have been selling other similar knives the past year with no prior problems. Maybe Zippo will get back with me and let me know. If not I may get the email address of the lady you mentioned and contact her directly. Thanks Steve for verifying that it is indeed an authentic Case knife.
Thanks, Tom

[FRJ]

Good luck with that, Tom.

[wazu013]

Here's a link to Case support. You should be able to get some answers there. I posted your pics on the Case forum. Katie usually checks it and gives answers there. I'll let you know what happens.
http://www.wrcase.com/support/contact/

[olderdogs1]

A Zippo representative named Kelly Sweet did reply to my email and stated that the unalterized alterations was what would damage Case if the knife was sold.
I replied that as the knife was 23 years old how was I to be certain whether Case had authorized the John Wayne insignias on the knife as I do see a lot of Case Trappers with various celebrities. I was very cordial and told her that I certainly did not want to contribute to damaging Case as I was a fan and had several hundred in my collection.
I will let you know what I hear back. Thank you all very much for your input. It is much appreciated.

Tom

[olderdogs1]

I should add that I also told her that I was fairly certain that the knife was not a counterfeit as ebay alluded to in their email when they removed the listing.

Tom

[olderdogs1]

I received a very polite quick reply that she would be happy to review pictures of any knife in question in the future. Thanks everyone for the input.

Tom

[RobesonsRme.com]

I suspect you could relist the knife, but describe it for exactly what it is, a 1993 Case trapper decorated with an after-market etch and handle adornments.

I don't know who did the work on the knife, but they apparently ran three hundred of them. Might have been Sargent's in Huntsville, AL or someone similar.

Altered Case knives sell on Ebay all the time. Why Case/Zippo had this one pulled I don't know. Maybe it was the "Give Em Hell John" logo.

Charlie Noyes

[knifeaholic]

I think this has to do with the fact that Case currently (has for a few years) sells a line of licensed John Wayne embellished knives. Zippo may be doing this with lighters too, I don't know.

So, presumably, Case is paying the John Wayne estate holders an annual license fee to use the name and images.

It may be unfair in that this is an older knife and the (most likely) unlicensed name/artwork was done years ago, but Case is trying to protect the licensing agreement that they are paying for.

If the knife in question had for example Steve McQueen's name and image, Case would most likely ignore it as an aftermarket decorated knife, since Case/Zippo has no licensing agreement with the Steve McQueen estate.

[jerryd6818]

After reading all this, it hit me that it must have been Case that complained abut the knife because eBay doesn't know their ass from their elbow about knives. Ebay is all about the money and would take no steps that were not initiated by a large company. An individual would get nowhere with a complaint like this.

[olderdogs1]

Ebay was clear the Zippo/case was the one that reported it as a counterfeit. What is strange to me is that there are other similar Case knives almost exactly like mine on Ebay at present that Zippo/case apparently has no interest in removing. I am certainly not advocating that they do as I wonder how Zippo even knows what Case licensed in 1993 as I understand it that was about the time that they purchased Case from River Associates.
I do appreciate the fact that Zippo did respond to my inquiry as to why it was pulled. As a small seller and collector that was really more than I expected.

Tom

[tjmurphy]

There are millions of auction items on ebay and no one can look at all of them. They focus on key-words in the header to investigate and, though I've not seen your auction, I suspect that the heading contained both CASE and John Wayne in the header. They once pulled one of mine because I used the term "ZIPPO-Like" and they said I was infringing on the ZIPPO copyright, and they were correct. Relist and omit "John Wayne" from the header.

[wornoutwrench]

Its weird. I see auto knives all the time that run to the end of the auction and I cant even sell my Benchmade Mini Presidio without it getting pulled instantly, even when I don't say its auto and there are non-auto versions made.
I tried to sell an old nightstick once and it got pulled, but there many others on there just the other day. I can't figure it out.
Get the final word (email) from the Zippo folks and if they say its OK, share that with eBay and they should let you relist the knife.
Good luck.

[Mumbleypeg]

It's possible that Zippo/Case is sensitive regarding their license with John Wayne's estate. Very probable that the John Wayne estate has wording in their licenses that clearly specifies how the name and associated trademarks may be used, and requiring the licensee to actively enforce any/all infringements of their agreement. If they don't comply their business relationship with the licensor could be at risk. In other words even (especially) if Case did not produce the item and it is an after-market add-on, John Wayne Enterprises could hold Case responsible for failing to protect their name or trademark. I have no specific knowledge whatsoever of any Zippo/Case or John Wayne contract licenses but I have negotiated contracts of this nature myself when I worked for a Fortune 500 company. I know to some this may seem far-fetched and nit-picky, but it happens. Like it or not we live in a litigious society filled with lawyers.

Ken

[philco]

Ken what you're saying makes perfect sense to me. Sad but true, lawyers control the world we live in.