Tell me what you know

[lt632ret]

Here is a knife I bought . ( 130145105662 ) I pretty well thought I knew what it was when I read the ad. As it turns out I did. However this is one of those items that can be easily passed over and not recognized. This is due to the ad and several other factors. Look at the ad and the pic. Then if you feel like it tell us all you can about it, age maker possible uses ect. Notice the seller leaves some things out can you figure out what they are. I am wrtiing this for several reasons first I really have not had much time or inclination to post ( for personal reasons ) second things have been a bit hectic and there are several projects on the fire keeping me kind of busy . Third I felt that this would be sort of like a combination puzzle as well as an example of the kind of things to recognize regarding older knives which will not need an excessively long explantaion . So if you feel like it tell me what you think. LT PS. Thankyou all for your condolences and considerate messages and comments.

[upnorth]

Wow! If it's Union Knife Company, then it's OLD! Closed ca. 1885????
The missing line would be Naugatuck!!

P.S. Nice score!!

[lt632ret]

OK before I embark on this treatise have a good yawn because unless you like myself are a pure nerd regarding knife history and these artifacts, this may well be more boring than watching paint dry.

To begin with I use two sources I wish to acknowledge them first, The Second Edition of Markings of Manufacturers and Dealers by Mr John E Goins. Second Swords & Blades of the American Revolution by George G Neuman.

The use of the word Union in the name or tang of knife companies is not unique. I am posting several scans to show some of the older variations which have been used. However today most collectors seem to forget most of these as soon as they see the word Union they seem to immediately relate to the Union Cutlery company which began in Tidioute and then moved to Olean NY. Originally the Union Razor company. They went on to incorporate with the Olean Knife company then became Union Ka-bar . This itself is an interesting study however it is not in itself todays total subject.

The fact is that some of the other companies which had Union in there name can be a bit more difficult to find examples of. So rare that often they have been counterfeited. ( You will note I very seldom go into counterfeit knives since I feel that more often than not, knives judged as counterfeits are often just little known variations due to all the nuances and vasilations that companies being just humans, in business, often did or tried . to counterfeit a knife it needs to be of significant value or rarity to make doing so worthwhile ). In this case the rarity of these knives has caused there replication ( as is pointed out by Mr Goins see scan).

This being said you will note that while the word Union is often used the second or third words in the marking usually identify the exact maker. The Union Cutlery Company was the actual name of the firm that became Ka-Bar. There was the Union Knife works in various forms, there was union manufacturing and others . However one of the rarist and most sought examples was the UNION KNIFE CO NAUGATUCK in three lines. This company was in business from 1851 until 1885. Now it is not the second number which is that important it is the first because it predates the civil war and had been in business a number of years before it began. These knives were favorites because they were of the finest quality and were made by German and English craftsmen who not only took pride in there work but tried to out do each other. I have found that the 3 bladed whittler is perhapes the most sought after pattern.

I have a friend who's great grandfather enlisted in 1860 in 64 he was mustered out and reupped and was promoted from Sgt to LT. When he went back he was captured ( I forget what battle ) he was sent to Andersonville and then several other hell holes. He came out with a withered limb and scurvy and considerd himself the luckiest of men. In any event when home in 64 ( before reupping) he purchased ( in upstate NY ) a NAG ( Naugatuck whittler). In a handwritten letter handed down with the knife he explains how he carried it though all his time as a POW hiding in ( I would guess much the same as prisoners today hide items A LA KEESTER ). He explains how it was for him and 3 comrades the only tool they had to cut wood, food, ect. By the way this knife and letter are further documented in a book that was written about him and various other civil war soldiers. Er yes I have made several modest financial offers for these items ( as you might imagine, I have also drooled near them ). By the way the tang is in nearly identical condition to mine on the third line only the NAUG are visible ( I believe this happened due to the amount of hand letters needed in this tang ).

All that being said several things to be aware of first the tang stamp these were hand done and therefore fairly easy to counterfeit. If you see one that is pristene you may not have an original. Second all of these I have seen seem to wear on the third line mostly on the back letters of the word NAUGATUCK. Usually the NAUG is readable. However most never realize what it is they are reading. Also as is often brought out knife patterns should be indicative of the time and era.

The seller said the third line of the tang was not discernable I felt it would be at least in part, I have posted a pic . I believe I was correct.

This pattern of knife was very popular and was often a favorite of farmers and workers, however it was also quite popular with soldiers because it was often used cutting upward. for quicker cutting of cloth , instead of down it was often favored as a patch knife for muskets. They were also good for plug tobacco. A variation of weaponry was used during the civil war and while many weapons employed cartridges many muskets were also utilized. Usually as a patch knife the front hooked point of the knife was often ground down much as it is with this knife. Often times soldiers would upgrade there weapons if better ones were found in the field.

When this knife arrived I examined it to see if I could discern any further information from it . I verified the tang and then turned it over and found a pleasant surprise. Aside from the usual scuffs on the brass butt plate I found several small holes all in one section. I had seen this before. Often times firing pins would stick or need replacment if held in exactly this position the pin could be banged loose. Now this could have been in 1880 by some farmer rabbit hunting or it could have been at gettysburg or some other battle site, so who knows. Hopefully its battles are now over and it can just lay in display among its peers. One more thing if you look at the pictures you will see a line running the length of the blade the top having oxidised more than the bottom half . This shows that somewhere in its 150 year history it was stored ( closed ) with some celluloid handled knives ( which had gone bad and gassed ). This causes the exposed top to rust faster than the bottom . Obviously it has been cleaned however it is still a read into the knifes history. also notice one side is worse than the other that would have been the upside in the box or drawer was kept in.

Just a final epilogue this knife sold for 28 dollars a pristene small two bladed pen ( absolutely perfect like new ) just sold for 168. It kind of makes you wonder if it is correct the buyer got a great deal . In any event I feel my knife has more character. LT PS I almost forgot to explain why these knives were so popular with soldiers . However you have probably figured it out. I mean if you were a soldier fighting on the side of the North in the civil war what tang would you want on your knife?

NOTE I have added a picture of a Fascene knife from the Revolutionary war period with comment from the author to emphasize the point of this style being favored as patch knives as well as mony other uses by soldiers.

[El Lobo]

Great read LT...thanks for the post.

Bill

P. S.
Nice find on the knife.

[Ringmaster]

LT,

I can't begin to add anything to the wealth of knowledge in your post, only express my appreciation for sharing it with us.

If I EVER travel across the M-D line, I'd like to buy you a shot of Crown. (Not likely, tho' - my traveling days are behind me).

Thanks, ever so much.
JR

[gmusic]

Great read LT.

I almost bid on that knife, it looked very interesting to me. I don't collect knives from that era so I passed.

I noticed the pivot pin is set forward in the bolster, it must have one heck of a backspring!

gary

[orvet]

OK before I embark on this treatise have a good yawn because unless you like myself are a pure nerd regarding knife history and these artifacts, this may well be more boring than watching paint dry.

OK I read your post, enjoyed it, wished you would have written 3 times as much & posted more pictures. Does that mean I am a Knife-Knurd?
I am thinking that's probably not a bad thing.

I have a couple questions;
Is the Fascene knife a style of knife or a brand of knife?
You mentioned that Union soldiers liked these knives because of the name. Was there a particular brand favored by the Confederate soldiers, for what ever reason? I don't recall any knife manufacturers (of any size) in the South. I have heard of the "Arkansas Toothpick" & that the Southern soldiers used Bowie knives, but I was wondering what the Confederate soldiers used for a patch knife? Both of the aforementioned knives would seem a bit unwieldy for cutting patches. Any idea what they used for patch knives?

Thank for sharing your knife & story,
Dale

[lt632ret]

It is a very old style I have seen european paintings from the 16th
century with these knives being used in vinyards I am sure it is much older than even that. These also are referred to as pruners among other names. Aside from captured or otherwise acquired northern knives english knives were quite popular on both sides. Again this style of knife as can be seen in the pic of the revolutionary version is quite old and had many purposes. There were some knife outfits later in Louisana and various other southern points just as there were some gun makers. However most US industry was in the Northeast. This was certainly a major reason that the south was blockaded to stop there supplies of all kinds of necessitys including pocket knives. It also was one of the reasons albeit not the only one why the North prevailed. Actually you have touched on one of the primary reasons I feel the conservation of this history and these artifacts is so important to our American heritage. Also it should be remembered that this is very early in American knife making,It really is considered around 1840 when the very first firms appeared ( again in the northeast,Ct mainly do to experienced people from Europe and water power. ) Before that you went to a blacksmith in the north or the south. Or bought an import. LT

[upnorth]

Thanks for treating us to the Union story, LT. And glad you managed to collect a great historical piece.
It is interesting that if the seller knew and advertised a little of that history, the knife would have probably cost a lot more. Then we may not have heard about this tale of history.

[ea42]

Excellent piece of history there LT! Like a zillion other ignoramuses I breezed right past that one thinking it was just a worn out, worthless old Union Cutlery hawkbill. Wow was I wrong! I can see where it definitely pays to have some serious knowledge in the history of the cutleries of this country. I wonder how many of you out there have come across a previously unknown (to you) cutlery and suddenly found yourself soaking up as much info as you can about it. Not so much trying to collect every knife you see but just enthralled by it's history? Thanks LT, you won't find any yawning here!

Eric

[Gr8Scout]

Thank you Lt. Thank you very much for making time for us while you have so many irons in the fire.

I can add nothing, but will make an observation. Yep, as a sometime muzzle loader, I agree this kinda knife would be good for cutting patches. How different is this real thing, as opposed to the junk / fantasy /stupid 'patch knives' one can find at 'mountain man' rendezvous and at civil war re-enactors encampments.

Bernard Levine wrote somewhere that 'primitives' like Daniel Boone didn't live in mud huts... he was making a point that their knives did not look like what many present day makers want us to think they looked like. What you show us is elegant now, and was elegant and beautiful in it's prime. A man spent good money on it, it was obviously a good value for the price.

I've read several places that the average age of a working pocket knife is only three years; after that they get lost, wear out or are worked too hard and broken. Imagine that when looking at your knife.

Thanks again, Lt.

Phil

[Mossdancer]

LT:
Thank You. Your writing is never boring. Again you have proven the adage that Knowledge is a powerful tool.
wb