Case Prototype

[A&E]

How does one determine whether a CASE knife is actually a prototype? Some say "proto" on the tang, some have "prototype" etched on the blade, and some have other distinctive markings. What are the REAL distinctions ... and how does one recognize a fake prototype?

[jonet143]

bad records afford many prototypes. all it takes is a good engraver, and a snake oil salesman. most prototypes are actually small runs with exotic handles. without proper original documentation, it's a crap
shoot. originally "prototype" knives were often unfinished, models if you will, and not sold. some of this is jmo. .

[upnorth]

The real Case Classics prototypes were just a handful, a dozen or so! Now there are hundreds out there!! I got this from the actual maker of the prototypes!!!!
Makes you lose faith in your fellow humans. I collect a few Classics because they are nice knives, but I refuse to pay for the "proto" or "sample" marked ones, as you will NEVER know the truth!!

[Forensic Jim]

I'm constantly amazed how many protos are always being sold on eBay. Seems like there's a never ending run to them. I have quite a few protos and one salesman sample. Even with the Case Classic Book by Jim Parker, Case Classics Best In The Long Haul, you can not find a definitive number of how many were actually produced. In fact, there are some that aren't even in the book.

[jonet143]

here's a good example. no original coa, snakeoil salesman, engraver and shazam... a 1 of 4 not in the book genuine crosscut texas longhorn. it looks like a moose or texas jack to me. this clown is amazing.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-of-4-SUPER-RARE-C ... dZViewItem

[A&E]

Here's one I'm thinking of buying. I've bought from this guy before and have had nothing but GOOD stuff. What do you guys think of the knife?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=013

[Knifekid]

The Copperlock is a real factory Proto.

[Forensic Jim]

I've bought several knives from Whittlin Fella, and they have all been mint condition. The last two that I've bought, they looked like brand new knives.

[upnorth]

So far, all my whittlinfella deals have been good, as advertised.

[upnorth]

here's a good example. no original coa, snakeoil salesman, engraver and shazam... a 1 of 4 not in the book genuine crosscut texas longhorn. it looks like a moose or texas jack to me. this clown is amazing.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-of-4-SUPER-RARE-C ... dZViewItem

Total bullshit. First, it's jigged bone. second, it's 1 of MANY!

[Classic Case]

I notice that the main blade is wr case and sons, and the other is case brothers.I have noticed this alot, call it a transition, and make a regular release into a rare "transition" 1 of 4.This was going on even way back when they were being released.I cant call this a fake knife.Many,many knives never made the book.But i also cant swear it to be real.Boy, im glad i bought the vast majority of my CC's as they were being released. PS, i was speaking about the knife jonet linked, not the original.

[A&E]

knifekid,
can you tell me how you know this is real? I trust whittlinfella . . . he's done me good in the past & I wasn't questioning him AT ALL. I now he's a high quality seller. I was just wondering how to identify a Case proto. You can tell by looking that it is real - and I want to be able to do that!
Is it the two small X's on the tang? that's the only difference that I see between that knife and a regular red appaloosa copperlock. And what exactly does prototype mean? I thought it meant that they only made a very limited # of the knives. And these red appaloosas . . . well, they made lots of them.
As I read in an earlier post in this thread, a prototype is typically a limited run of a special handle material, etc.
Am I somehow missing the definition of prototype?
thanks guys.

[Forensic Jim]

Eric you should send Whittlin Fella (Ed) a message and ask him what makes it a proto. He would probably be more than glad to explain it to you if you are interested in buying it. JMO

[gmusic]

Prototype:
1: an original model on which something is patterned
2: an individual that exhibits the essential features of a later type
3: a standard or typical example
4: a first full-scale and usually functional form of a new type or design of a construction

Jim Parker went to work each day to make money, as we all do! He happened to be in the knife business. Jim understood the potential for larger profits on “prototypes” over production knives, a concept that should not be hard to understand.

My numbers may be off here a little, but I think you can grasp the enormity of it: 39 patterns, 7 shields, 6 different tang stamps, dozens of handle materials, numerous blade etchings, multiplied times 10 (the typical number of prototype for each) -- you see where I’m going here! I’m not a mathematician, but I see thousands of combinations.

Many people (such as me) collected hundreds of Case Classic knives. I’ll bet I have at least 90-120 prototypes. I know of 4 others that have many, many more than that.

Karl (DD) is one of them. He had over a thousand (that I know of). I had it out with the man......I at one time called him a “friend.” I then had to tell him (when he started all this crap) that in his case, I was a poor judge of character. There is no doubt he had many legit knives. It’s a shame he turned into such a charlatan.

It looks as if he may be capable of any type of deception now. He is buying and selling more now as his inventory is depleted, using a variety of names. Hopefully someday he will just go away and stop taking advantage of new knife collectors with his hype.

gary

[gmusic]

Hey Eric,

I failed to address your question. Answer, all of the above! They were marked in a number of ways. Proto on the bolster with long tail C in script. Bolster engraved with Proto in block letters only. Prototype engraved on the blade. Prototype etched on the blade.

I would say the most important thing is to have a COA from parker. That “legitimizes” the knife. Did they go overboard with the prototypes? Maybe! But, then again, who has put out a more popular run or series of knives, in the numbers that the Classics were produced in, in the last 50 years? Who?

JMO……………………………..

[yerout]

This Case Proto is marked as such, but was never put into production

[jonet143]

great post roger, a true prototype.

[gmusic]

Can we see a picture of the whole knife? That would be cool!


Hey Johnnie, you sure it's "a true prototype", look who signed the paperwork.

So, by not going into production, is that what makes it "a true prototype"?

[jonet143]

hey gary, jim parker did some good stuff too. no, that's not the only criteria. a proto can be brought into production. imo, small runs of production knives where the only difference is exotic handle materials don't qualify. again, this just my opinion. i think they would be more accurately called limited editions. for instance 1 of 4 limited edition. this is a touchy subject with rhose who own protos(myself included).

[yerout]

Gary this is the whole knife sorry for the bad pic

[A&E]

I was told that Case factory prototypes (such as the red appaloosa copperlock I'm watching on ebay) don't have boxes or paperwork. Why would I be told that, but then see these COA's in these pictures in this thread? Could it be that there's a difference between Case Classic prototypes and regular Case prototypes?

btw, beautiful knife yerout

[yerout]

Eric, I can't answer your question totally but the knife I have was part of the Case Factory Collection that was sold to Kevin Pipes and John Parker of SMKW's by Jim Parker, my understanding was the collection was sold to try to keep Case from going into bankruptcy, which happened anyway, the knife I have I bought thru Kevin Pipes, The Big question I have is was all the Case Collection sold if so W.R. Case & Sons has no factory collection other than what was kept after the Parker era at Case unless SMKW's sold it back to Case minus a few select knives, maybe Perry or someone with more info than I have could shed some light on this.


As for the difference in the Case Proto's and the Classic Proto's the classic's were not made by case with the exception of 3 or 4 patterns that were produced by Case, The Classic's was the brainchild of Jim Parker and licensed by Case to use their name and trademark therefore he could and did make hundred's upon hundred's of them in low run numbers and various handle materials which made some pattern's very rare and hard to get such as these that I am attaching pic's of, I hope this info helps a little, sorry the pic's did not come out in the right order but you can tell which is which, Man I love this place !!

Roger

[jonet143]

hey roger, what a prize. do you know what year that knife was made?

[gmusic]

Very cool Yerout! I'll bet it's also very functional...............Thanks for the picture.



Hey Johnnie, I didn’t mean to sound agitated. I' m still learning about these Classics myself, I don't know that we will ever have the whole story!

I agree with you about the low runs and exotics. The industry as a whole (to avoid confusion) would have benefited by not calling them prototypes; but instead what they are, 1 of 5, 1 of 10, and so on. The damage is done and I guess it's left to us to deal with.

A & E, the Case Classics, and W.R. Case and Sons are two entirely different animals.

One would think though, any prototype (or low run) would come with documentation.

[gmusic]

I have heard that W.R. Case and Sons has 99% of the collection back.

Jim sold it to help pay off creditors, which he did. All the while knowing they (his brother) would sell it back to the new owners, make a few bucks, and everyone is happy.