Cleaned, buffed or polished? Red Bone Congress

[Forensic Jim]

I've got one Case 1971 64052 Congress with dark red bone handles and a Case Stag USA 54052 Congress. I was told when I bought them that they were mint and uncleaned. I have doubts now since I find it difficult to see the factory edge on either, and the 54052 tang stamp is very hard to make out. Also, the stag on the one knife is different than most I've seen. Any thoughts or impressions would be appreciated. I know it is almost impossible to know fully what to think of a knife with out holding it in your hand, and I can only post a couple of photos of each.

[Forensic Jim]

Made an error on the Red Bone Congress. It is a 1973 7 Dot knife, not a 1971. Here are photos of the 54052 Stag Congress. Wanted to get some opinions as to whether it might be cleaned, buffed or polished? Also, these stag handles are different from what I normally see.

[gmusic]

You're right Jim, it's hard to tell much (with certainty) about a knife without holding it.
That is one very good indicator though, the factory honed edge is gone, it's rounded off and smooth. You also have pitting on the stag knife that has been cleaned up, so more than likely they "hit" the blades as well, removing the edge.
Many novices will buff a knife, but, when it comes to honing a blade they stop there. A properly "cleaned" knife will also have a new edge, but those pits! Hummmm they are to get rid of! The stag also looks pocket worn.

The Red Bone knife, I think I can see factory edges on it, the blades look full, not bad at all!

I am certainly no expert!


gary

[Forensic Jim]

Thanks Gary for the info. I think you are right. The longer I've been at this, the more I learn.

[upnorth]

The blades look "down" on both those knives. When I hold my mint example up there next to the pictures, your blades are proportionately thinner.
My knife is newer. But it is a Classic made at the Case factory, one of the few Classics actually made there. What I don't know is whether Case used the original tooling. Here's a pic to compare;

[El Lobo]

For what it's worth, I agree with upnorth that the blades (especially the coping blade) appear down. The bolster, at the end with the coping blade, looks rounded off to me as well. But, as always, JMO.

Bill

EDITED: To be clear, I'm referring to the knife with stag handle material.

[gmusic]

No doubt Charlie, they're down, especially the stag. The red bone it's hard for me to tell.

I'll post pictures of knives from the same period for comparison.

Picture #28 is 6 dot knife, blades are a little tarnished, but full.

Picture # 33 is a USA stag close to new condition.

[Forensic Jim]

These are the medium Congresses, the 52's, not the 88's. Isn't there a difference in blade size between the two?

[upnorth]

DUH!! 64052, hanging out for all to see. I led you guys down a merry path!!
I will be back with some 52's tonight !

[gmusic]

AHH-SO,

I thought they looked slimmer all around, I was blaming your photography...........LOL First time I've used emoticons!

I don't have, any 52s to compare.......................seeya

[jonet143]

here's a mint 52 for comparison.

[Forensic Jim]

Boy you guys really had me worried. These are the only two 52's that I have. I've had several 88's, and the blades were significantly different than these. I guess the safest thing to do before I sell either one is to list them as cleaned. That way there won't be any dispute with the sale. I still think I can barely make an edge out on the red bone though.

[Forensic Jim]

Johnnie I don't think that's a good comparison, due when these knives were made. I'll post a of new Case 88 Congresses and you can see the blades are totally different compared to the old 88's.

[jonet143]

i thought you were talkin 052s not 88s. the pic i posted is a 052.

[Forensic Jim]

I know that's a 52 pattern Johnnie, but what year was it made? Look at the top picture of the 2006 Mammoth Ivory 88. The blades are really slimmer and not like the older 88's. I'll have to dig out Jim Sargents book and see what he shows.

[jonet143]

ok, went to sargent's and compared his older 52 with my newer one and the blades look to be the same .

to answer the stag 52 queation, shows blade wear and heavy buffing.

[Forensic Jim]

Johnnie I'd say you're right. Seems like I've been had more than once.

[upnorth]

Here is a 64052 10DOT (1970) with what I think are mint blades. I think Johnnie has nailed it; the stag knife is down quite a bit, but the bone knife looks O.K.

[knifeswapper]

One of the easier ways to tell is by examining the pulls. It is very hard to buff a knife very much without smoothing out the edges of the pulls; and they are impossible to put back.

So when handling a knife you have questions about always feel of the pulls; you are wanting to feel sharp angles.

Your tang is a dead giveaway on the stag. There are only a couple of places that cleaners cannot go at with a buffer; and the tang stamps are one of them. So if you see stamps that have been pitted, rest assured the rest of the knife was too.

[Forensic Jim]

Thanks everyone for the info, and the honest opinions. The one thing that is really great about this site is all the experience some of you have and are willing to share. I have only been a knifer for the past 10 months, and anything I can learn is a benefit to me. I dug those knives out several days ago to put some Ren Wax on them and oil them, and that's when I became concerned whether they were cleaned, or buffed.