Pictures of some old factories and buildings...

[Timstools]

Hi
I have a Schrade LB7 with Napanoch on it. Whats Napanoch? Hows it part of US knife history? Ive noticed the name mentioned a few times, was it related to Schrade somehow?
Regards Tim

[orvet]

Tim,

Napanoch Knife Company, 1900-1919 & 1931-1938.
Lt will no doubt fill you in MUCH better than I can, But until he gets here:
They were in Napanoch, NY. They were one of the first knife companies in the USA to have electricity to power their machinery.
In 1919 the company sold to Winchester Arms Co. & they closed the plant & moved it to New Haven CT.

some of the workers came back in 1921 & reopened the plant under the name of Honk Falls Knife Co. The factory burned down in 1929 but this wasn't the original Napanoch building.

One of the owners of Honk Falls, John Cushner remodeled his barn & began making knives marked "Napanoch Knife Co." He was killed in a car wreck in 1938 & his daughters sold the remaining knives until their stock was gone in 1939.

The first Napanoch Knife Co. made a lot of contract knives; Wilbert (Made for Sears), W.R. Case & Sons, Keen Kutter, Ulery Cutlery Co. & for other hardware firms.

I am sure LT can add a lot more. This is a quick thumbnail history from Goin's.

You might also look for the book: "Napanoch" A "Whiteman's" Knife With A "Red Man's" Name, by Rhett C. Stidham.

Some of the companies Napanoch made knives for, as listed in Mr. Stidham's book are;
Wilbert (Sears, Roebuck & Co.)
Hibbard, Spencer & Barttlet
Challenge Cutlery Co.
Henry Sears
Cooper
W.R.B. (Will Roll Bearing)
Hickory
Keen Cutlery& many others

I hope this helps until LT gets here to answer you.
Dale

[orvet]

Hi
I have a Schrade LB7 with Napanoch on it. Whats Napanoch? Hows it part of US knife history? Ive noticed the name mentioned a few times, was it related to Schrade somehow?
Regards Tim

Sorry Tim,
Back to your original question...............................................
I believe that Schrade made some knives with the Napanoch name as a special issue commemorating Napanoch.

LT will probably know the time frame on that.

Dale

[lt632ret]

Napanoch is a small village next to Ellenville as such there were numerous commeratives. Eastern correctional facility is in Napanoch and had several done especially to commerate its 100 year anniversary. I have plenty of info regarding this and also have several original Naps and Honk Falls Naps and I could generate a ream of pics and info. Every year for about 15 or 20 years before closing, Schrade would donate or sell for almost cost special issues for the local towns as commerative fund raisers ( July forth or for fire depts or numerous other reasons.). Yours is probably one of those issues and has the name Napanoch etched or scrimmed it has nothing to do with the original knives. Regarding the original knives and history, I would suggest you attempt to get a copy of the attached book written by one of our own forum members Rhett Stidham who appears here under the Nom De Plume ( ie alias ) of KNIFENUT. I do not like plagerists often info posted is assumed to be the research of the writer. In my case I try to give credit for info I find, here is a chance if Rhett spare some time to get it right from THE MAN who did the research. If you can post a pic of your knife I will try to pin down what it was made for. Again it is a modern special issue. Let me know if there is something specific regarding this subject that you are interested in I have been attempting for decades to gather information on Hudson Valley Knives in the hope of saving this history so you can imagine the amount of info I have, If I just started posting on this subject if would be simply overkill and would be a book itself. LT

[ea42]

Timstools,
Perhaps yours is one of the firehouse commemoratives? I think those only had a shield and no etch, but I'm not positive. Here's a photo of an actual Napanoch knife that was on Ebay, note the double pulls on the master.

Eric

[orvet]

Thank you LT.
You have given me so much info in our conversations that I have a hard time keeping it straight. That is why I used Goin's info, then I remembered the Napanoch book you had recommended. You have told me so much info on so many companies that are all in & around the Hudson Valley that I am afraid I will mix up parts of the Napanoch story with Ulster, or Schrade, or Honk Falls, or Kingston, or Shur-Snap, or er, or eh sputter gasp!......

If you are a knife collector, talking to LT about knives is like Shock & Awe of knife history! He is so knowledgeable & passionate about knives and their history that you get info that no one else cares about (well, only knifeknuts care about it).

It is really nice to talk to someone who knows his info & is willing to share it. Many writers try to hide their stories for their "next" book. What I appreciate about LT is that he shares his info with everyone.

Thanks LT,
Dale

[Timstools]

Heres the knife I mentioned, were they for the firebrigade as special carry issue or just commemorative?

Did Schrade supply Law Enforcement agencys with similar types? Ive noticed the not mint Suffolk Police LB7 on ebay for a long time? Are any of these types collectable?? Thanks for the background history.
Regards Tim

[lt632ret]

I am attaching some pics of a few of Napanochs and Honk Falls Naps. After Nap along with Eagle, Walden and a few others was bought by Winchester. Who by the way was having there knives made by Walden knife which had been bought by EC Simmons in 1909 ( if I remember ) who by the way, were also the makers of KEEN KUTTER Oh heck it just gets more complicated. Anyway Winchester around 22 moved to CT and one employee who did not want to move opened up Honk Falls ( I believe originally in his garage. Then in the old factory.) He started in 21 Now Honk falls comes from Honk lake which is just up the road and where the power house was that supplied the electricity. I could rattle a few ( hundred thousand ) more words but, by now everyone is probably asleep just with this. The knives look similar since he got some of the original equiptment and since he had made them originally. This story is even more complicated and these were not the only companies to come go and change.

Regarding the special scrim issues and reg special issues . Yes they made them for police, fire companies, the prisons, military ,states , firms companies virtually everyone. I am submitting some pics of just a few that I did not have packed away. it will give you an idea. I happened to have the Suffolk county one in a display I have out so I used it because as with most all of them I have the original dies it was scrimmed with. This display is like this because I do not have the original boxes for these so I have them displayed. As I have mentioned before the dies are one of a kind even if they did 10,000 of a particular company or picture usually unless it wore out or was in someway not perfect would there be a second die made. I have dozens of the issues in boxes with the appriopriate knives packed away. This makes them rather unique. By the way I also have most of the tang stamps as well. These were not one of a kind but just as rare to find. I still have hundreds of the stamp dies that I have not paired up with the knives stuill this should give you an idea. PS regarding tang stamps the reason for there rarity is that ( well here is the analogy I usually use. ) If you buy a bottle of coke and drink it you can keep the bottle but if you refill it and try to sell it as coke it is illegal. ) This is the same with tang stamps legal to own or have but not to make knives with. So because of this tangs stamps were not sold or given away since they ( the knife company) could never be sure what might happen down the road. Usually companies stored the old stamps and usually when they closed most people did not know how important they were so they usually ended up in a blast furnace or landfill. When Schrade closed I vowed not to let this happen it took 6 hours on my hands and knees in a area closed for many years digging ( literaly ) in tons of machinery and dirt. When I found the boxes hundreds of pounds I felt like I had found the lost dutchman mine. Now they are safe. I also have taken a bath since then since when I emerged I looked like a coal miner.

Scrims were done by deciding on a subject then the artist would draw it ( Usually Frank Giorgianni ( who is a friend of mine ) . If they liked the pic they would have the steel hot die made in a tool and die place in Providence RI. When they received the die it is heated to 420 F in a machine a colored ( later better machines several colors ) strip and the strip is passed between the delrin ( or micarta another form of plastic) . the die is touched to the knife and imprints it. (NOTE some knives were done entirely by hand they are rare the Presidential set are examples of this ). So like I said the dies are much more rare than the knives however it is nice having them stashed with the new ( old stock) boxed knives.

I have really skipped around on this posting since I knew it would involve alot to even attempt to answer that is why I wanted to get Rhett in on some of it. If you want to delve into the nuances of all this pick a spot and I will try to clarify. The pics should give some idea. Some times what seems like a simple question requires a convoluted answer . Sorry to have rambled however you did seem to have an interest. LT

[El Lobo]

Absofrigginlutely great stuff LT...as always.

Please keep sharing those rare old beauties.

Bill

[orvet]

Like I said; Shock & Awe of knife history WITH the pictures of the knives to go with the history!
In one paragraph you gave us knife history that we could not get from any other person, or even from books that have been written on the subject.

All I can say is PLEASE KEEP POSTING THE HISTORY, as well as the knives.

Thanks again LT! I hope that someday I can get back to NY & see your collection & the places where these factories were located.

Dale

[ea42]

Awesome stuff LT! You've got to stop apologizing for your "ramblings", quite the contrary, when I see your handle come up I can't wait to see what you've added to these threads. Those Honk Falls knives are beautiful! And rare even in well used form. To have three in that condition is just amazing

Eric

[Timstools]

LT, what sort of camera do you use? Thanks for the posts, Id come and have a look at them but as Im over 10,000 kilometers away its out of the question.
I like the part about you coal mining for the dies.
Thanks Tim

[semloh]

Just finished reading the preceding 8 pages and, Wow--- given my interest in early cutlery companies, I have to say it just shot straight to 'favorite' among threads in my short time on AAPK. So much information--- feels like it should be kept alive and never too far from the top of the pile in Knife Lore.

A huge thanks to everyone who has contributed thus far. Really great stuff.

Ray

[semloh]

From 'The Connecticut Magazine', 1904, a brief bio of the Empire Knife Company, pics of the Empire partners, and another of the factory. Apologies for the small size, but these originated from scans on Google Books (thanks, Google ).

Nice to see where these knives came from.

Ray