Is this a SMKWs Buck?

[sharalds]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BUCK-US ... 3f1c5e5e54

IS this a SMKW Buck? and can anyone tell me when it was made?

[Old Hunter]

This knife is "pre-301" (an early 301, but lacks the 301 model stamp). These were made by Schrade for Buck in the 1967-1970 period, this one appears to be a second version. I don't think SMKW had anything to do with these knives.

[sharalds]

Thank You!

[Old Hunter]

You are welcome - did you win it?

[300Bucks]

Good job Hunter on your reply to questioner. Spot on. There was overlap from Schrade production and new Camillus productions. The first Cami had scale rivets like the Schrades only smaller diameter.

SMKWs special order Bucks were much later in eras. They will not have date stamps and do not have model numbers stamped on the tangs. They did sell some regular production Bucks also. They will have model numbers on tangs. There is a difference in special order and off the shelf production in the SMKW histories. They sold one or two that Buck customized production knives and only SMKWs sold. Example of this are several knives that had printing on the blades commenerating national or patroitic events.

I do think that if the model number is on the reverse tang and the front says BUCK, Made in USA, the knife picture that you title as your first one was called a 1971 version 301. The first Cami version without scale rivets. It could have actually been made in late 70 but would be called a 71 version. Did you buy it new in 1970 ?

Just saying so your text cannot be questioned. Please keep answering the 300 questions.

300Bucks

[Old Hunter]

Morning 300! The Camillus mfg Buck 301 shown in my signature was obtained at H.L. Hodges Hardware Co. in Greenville NC for my 15th birthday on 11/24/70 - I think I got it a few days early as I was allowed to pick it out and take it to my Grandmother (who bought it) - she had my initials engraved on it by the jeweler she worked for. That would make it a very early Camillus second design Buck 301. This is my longest owned slipjoint, and one of only a few old knives I own that I can date exactly - I will never forget the thrill of getting that knife. I am going to carry it today and tomorrow in honor of today's anniversary of my departed Grandma's 98th birthday.

Ps One of Hodges sales reps is still selling firearms and hunting gear to gunshops for a local distributor - he can read the date code on the price label on my Buck 301 box - I will get him to read it and tell me when H L Hodges received the knife.

[jerryd6818]

Wow! $15 in 1970. That was an expensive knife. That's $89 in today's money. Super nice gift from your grandmother.

[300Bucks]

Great information. Great knife..

Yes, this is another example of several I have run on too, where model variations classified in the collector record world are 'cheated' a little late in a year of change. All my info says the knife with No scale rivets is a 1971 Camillus made version. But as proven by yours they actually changed earlier by producing and selling said models late in a calendar year. I did not write it down but I believe a Camillus worker told me they would have the old assembly line going till parts ran out and have another line starting up with new parts at same time. Call it as you see it, you have the paperwork to back it up....... Are you like me and find it hard to accept that you have a pocketknife 42 years old.....my increasing age is starting to be a reality... ......300Bucks

[orvet]

I have a Camillus TL-29 issued to me in the Marine Corps about 41 years ago. Camillus made them to last.
It is strange how age creeps up on us.

Come to think of it, I have a Buck fixed blade I bought about 1975. That has a bit of age on it now too.


I nice had a pair of boots for over 30 years. An awesome pair of W.E. Bass & Sons hand made boots.
I just kept them greased and had new soles put on them every few years.
Now, 30+ year old boots make me feel old, probably because for many of those years I was standing on my feet on concrete for 8-10 hours per day!
Maybe it was the aching feet & not the old boots that made me feel old.

[300Bucks]

Additional info for the original question on the model of knife in first photo.....

Photo shows the first model Buck folder, with grooved bolsters, it was not stamped with a model number but we all just call it the first 301. Its was made on contract with Schrade Knives for Buck to sell. But, it and the other Schrade versions had a flaw the Buck did not like. The Swinden pinned blades. Also known as hidden pinned blades. Pivot pin for blades is hidden under the bolster and makes them difficult to repair, and since Buck had a forever warranty they wanted a knife easier to change blades on. The second knife from left is the second version Schrade, notice no grooves. The face or shield side shown is the same for the second and third version. The second version has nothing stamped on the reverse of the secondary blades and the third version has BUCK stamped on both blades reverse tang. (Picture shows them reversed in order) The Schrade contract ended with the third version and Camillus began making the next 301 version in 1971. It had blade pins that went all the ways thru the bolsters.......


Here is photo comparing the third version Schrade 301 with the first version Camillus 301. Notice the differences. The quickest one to see is the different sizes of the scale rivets. Then the longer nail nic in the Cami. Also the Cami had a square end to the bolsters and the grind on the top of the clip blades is different. Also the country boy trick is to breath your hot breath on the bolster and see if the pin shows up in the moist haze......



For collectors the next version was just a manufactoring change by the addition of a additional cut-out brass brass spacer on the reverse inside liner. This allowed more room for the 'crinked' secondary blades.......These first two Camillus versions were only made for part of 1970 but may have extended into 71.

Here is picture of the second 'cut-out' brass spacer. Check out the bolster ends to see it well and gander at how it made just a tiny bit more blade well space......



300Bucks

[Old Hunter]

300 - great pictures - I just went back and looked over the original OP's closed e-bay auction - one of the pictures showed the back of the knife - the BUCK name is present, the knife in question would actually be a third version Schrade mfg Buck 301.

As to getting older; yes surprises me often as time seems to have gone quickly - I don't have any 30 year old boots, but I do have other things I still use that are that old. I am glad to still be here and be in good enough condition to do most of what I desire to do and I am only now easing from my mid-50's to my late-50's! I remember when I was in my teens I thought anyone in their 40's had one foot in the grave - I now look at an obituary for someone who goes at 60 and think "damn, they went young!" It all depends on where you are sitting on the scale of time I guess.

[keithw]

I know this is an old thread, but I have a question.

I bought a knife that looks exactly like the pics of the 2nd Camillus version:
1. Smaller pins on each end
2. Bolster ends squared off
3. Longer nail tick
4. Same swedge cut on blade
5. Tang Stamp: BUCK Made in U.S.A.
6. Additional brass spacer

But, it doesn't have a model number on the pile side.
If I have read correctly, it should.
But, it sounds like mine is too old to be a SMKW model.

Any ideas?

[Old Hunter]

My guess would be that (if you've got it identified properly) the blade simply didn't get stamped. I've got a few knives that way, an Ulster 58OT for example. Post some pictures and let us have a look. OH

[keithw]

Thanks OH,

Sorry for the picture quality, but this is the best I could do.

It's been carried a lot, but the blades are too worn.
Hopefully it will look better when I get a chance to clean it up.

BTW, the ant in the 3rd pic is just for scale.

Thanks!

[keithw]

Oops, forgot to get a pic of the insert.

[Old Hunter]

Keith I think you have a second version Buck 301 (as made by Camillus in 1970) - yours has the rivet pins and the additional brass liner (mine is a third version - very late 1970 - no scale rivets). Your knife came after the three Schrade made versions. I think your knife must have been an early built one and simply didn't get stamped (or maybe they didn't stamp the first few made - who knows??) OH

[300Bucks]

It is possible that Smokey Mountain Knife Works could have sold this knife if it were a company in 1971?. Otherwise they have nothing to do with the making of this knife.

The knife pictured is a 1971 Camillus contract Buck Model 301, Version 2. Difference in it an version 1 is the double brass liner/spacer, both versions had no model number. These were sold by every Buck dealer of the era.

SMKWs did have some folders made with special printing on the blades, but not this early of an issue.
Most were just before Buck cancelled the Camillus contract and took over making the 301 themselves. Actually, most of the special order SMKWs 300 models were much later, in the late 80's thru the early 2000's.

300Bucks

[Old Hunter]

Ah, so neither the 1st or 2nd versions of the Camillus built Buck 301 had a model number - love it when I learn another detail! Thanks 300Bucks! OH

[keithw]

Thanks for the info!

I really like to find out as much about my acquisitions as I can, and its great that there are such knowledgeable people here on this site who are willing to share.

Thanks again,
Keith

[keithw]

Well, now that I have this newfound knowledge, I've started to look more closely at Bucks, which brings up more questions, if you guys have the time.

Now I know there were at least 3 Camillus versions of the 301.
1. So, how many versions of Camillus-made Bucks were there?
2. Did Buck start making their own when the model number started appearing on the mark side of the tang, and what year was that?
3. Does the same rules apply to other models, such as the 303?
I ask because I just bought a 303 off eBay with the Buck Made in U.S.A tang stamp, long pulls, squared bolsters, and smaller scale pins. It seems to follow the same Camillus hints as the 301.

Thanks again,
Keith

[Old Hunter]

Keith, here is some Buck 300 series info I took off the web (probably furnished by 300BUCKS - he is THE 300 series man!) I have several of these for different Buck series (100, 300, 500) and add to them when I get more info (such as this one has a note by Tom Williams that I added). It is NOT all inclusive or guaranteed to be perfect - but it will help you begin in sorting it all out. You may want to save it to a word file and add to it as you learn new stuff. OH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buck Slip joint Data: Here's a quick guide to USA made Bucks 300 series knives
Schrade Contract knives 1966-1968 (there are three variations of the 301).
301 Stockman (Large)
303 Cadet (Medium Stockman)

Camillus Contract Knives 300 Series (1968-Varies by model). There are many variations of many of these knives.
301 Stockman (Large)
303 Cadet (Medium Stockman)
305 Lancer (small 2 blade)
307 Wrangler (Extra large Stockman)
309 Companion (med. 2 Blade)
311 Slim Line Trapper
313 Muskrat
315 Yachtsman (Sailor)
317 Trailblazer (2 blade Hunter)
319 Rancher (Cattleman W/Punch)
321 Bird Knife
322 Congress
329 Freedom Trapper
331 Granddaddy Barlow
332 Barlow
333 California Toothpick
334 Millennium Trapper

The Buck #300 series knives made by Camillus have 440A stainless steel blades; per Tom Williams (CAMCO) on The Blade Forums.

Buck In House Production 300 Series (1986-Present)
301 Stockman (Large)
303 Cadet (Medium Stockman)
305 Lancer (small 2 blade)
309 Companion (med. 2 Blade)

Buck In House Discontinued Models
305 Clipper (small blade and scissors)
310 Whittler (comes back from time to time at Bass Pro Shop)
312 Small Trapper
314 Trapper
330 Trapper set in ironwood (312 & 314)

[Old Hunter]

This is a page from the 1985 catalog (also downloaded from the Web) - all made by Camillus. 1985 was the last year for the 300 series to be contract made (some models were taken over by Buck in house production in 1986, some discontinued, and some continued a few years contract built by Camillus). OH

[Old Hunter]

The Schrade Contract 301 variations (not sure who first posted this, but if it is a Buck picture I will save it for future reference). OH

[Old Hunter]

Some Buck Knife advertisements that ran in Outdoor Life, Field & Stream, Sports Afield, etc. in 1967 and in 1972. I think I found these on e-Bay. OH
Ps The dates were the ones listed in the e-Bay auctions - I think the second ad should be in 1970 - but I don't know for sure.

[Old Hunter]

Here is a 300 series page from the 1990 Buck Catalog and some pictures of smooth red handled variations (also downloaded) as made by Buck in-house. I don't have any of these yet - we can bid against each other on e-Bay! OH