case knife question

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:43 am

I bought a case knife at an auction last weekend. The tang stamp has case xx ss usa with lightning S's on the clip blade and 53033ss on the sheepfoot blade and a large SS on the pen blade. It is a '86 model and it also has an M stamped on inside of the front liner, the clip blade side.
I looked on line for similar knives and found a few, but the knife I have doesn't have a shield on the front handle. All knives I have found have a shield. I also looked in a book I have, Collecting Case Knives by Steve Pfeiffer. It said in the book that all knives with genuine stag handles have a shield. Some knives with bails do not.
I was wondering if the knife came from the factory missing the shield or if the knife had been reworked by a collector or at the factory. If it was done at the factory it seems it would have a shield on the handle. I couldn't see any tool marks on the inside like it had been worked on. Any thoughts on any knives missing the shield. I also read that genuine stag handles without shields were rare. I know rare may not mean valuable it could also just be odd. I gave $33 for it and just like the knife. Thanks for any help on this.

0078 · Post by **0078** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:49 am

Post a pic, I'm sure someone will help you out.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:53 pm

Alfred Oldham wrote:I bought a case knife at an auction last weekend. The tang stamp has case xx ss usa with lightning S's on the clip blade and 53033ss on the sheepfoot blade and a large SS on the pen blade. It is a '86 model and it also has an M stamped on inside of the front liner, the clip blade side.
I looked on line for similar knives and found a few, but the knife I have doesn't have a shield on the front handle. All knives I have found have a shield. I also looked in a book I have, Collecting Case Knives by Steve Pfeiffer. It said in the book that all knives with genuine stag handles have a shield. Some knives with bails do not.
I was wondering if the knife came from the factory missing the shield or if the knife had been reworked by a collector or at the factory. If it was done at the factory it seems it would have a shield on the handle. I couldn't see any tool marks on the inside like it had been worked on. Any thoughts on any knives missing the shield. I also read that genuine stag handles without shields were rare. I know rare may not mean valuable it could also just be odd. I gave $33 for it and just like the knife. Thanks for any help on this.

Please study page 67.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:07 pm

I just reread your post. I had thought that you got a 52033 SS which was widely produced without a shield (see p 67). However, I have never seen a 53033 SS without a shield. It is most likely an original - Case could have randomly made a few without shields - factory error or temporary cost cutting measure.

I doubt that anyone would have faked the knife, if it has the 53033 SS pattern number stamped it is probably real. Its not a high enough $$ knife for someone to completely fake including the pattern number.

zp4ja · Post by **zp4ja** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:25 pm

I certainly don't doubt everything that Steve said. He is an expert and I am not. That said, I do find one comment made in the OP rather interesting. "and it also has an M stamped on inside of the front liner, the clip blade side." Since you could not stamp it while it is together, either of 2 things has occured.
Came from the factory with the liner stamped, or possibly, in my opinion, the knife has been apart. I beleive some of our knife mechanics mark knives like this for 2 reasons. To mark their work and to show the knife has been worked on. I agree with Steve that this knife would not be worth it to fake. Not saying it is conterfeit, just possibly worked on based the "M stamped on inside of the front liner". Could be wrong though as that has certainly happened before. My 2 cents.
Can you post some pics of the knife in question? Just curious to see it.

Jerry

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:03 pm

zp4ja wrote:I certainly don't doubt everything that Steve said. He is an expert and I am not. That said, I do find one comment made in the OP rather interesting. "and it also has an M stamped on inside of the front liner, the clip blade side." Since you could not stamp it while it is together, either of 2 things has occured.
Came from the factory with the liner stamped, or possibly, in my opinion, the knife has been apart. I beleive some of our knife mechanics mark knives like this for 2 reasons. To mark their work and to show the knife has been worked on. I agree with Steve that this knife would not be worth it to fake. Not saying it is conterfeit, just possibly worked on based the "M stamped on inside of the front liner". Could be wrong though as that has certainly happened before. My 2 cents.
Can you post some pics of the knife in question? Just curious to see it.

Jerry

No it came from the factory that way. I don't know the exact details but for a number of years on some patterns (I have seen it on the 032), Case stamped an M to designate the "Mark" side liner. they may have put a "P" on the other side for "pile" side but I do not recall.

This was to assist the assemblers in getting the parts put together correctly at the factory. The liners were the same shape but hey had a slight "dish" stamped in each so putting them on the correct sides was important. I do not know the years that Case did this. I noticed it in the 80's. It has been discussed on the Case Collectors Club forums.

zp4ja · Post by **zp4ja** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:17 pm

Very cool info Steve, I stand corrected. As I stated my disclaimer, I could be wrong. I never heard of or knew of that. Great information! I appreciate it. I'll have to take a look at some 80s' knives and see if I have any. Again, thanks, great to know.

Regards, Jerry

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:32 am

Thanks for the info. I learned a few things. I will try to post some pics, but since I am more mechanically inclined, I can't promise anything. I added 7 pics, at least I hope I did. I bought, sold and traded knives in high school in the 60's. And a few knives off and on usually at flea markets. Then my uncle passed away a few years ago and my aunt gave me about 12 knives he had and I started getting into buying again, but very limited.
I need to read my book some more and get better info before I buy many more. Thanks again for the info and I hope you can view the pics.

0078 · Post by **0078** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:45 am

Alfred nice looking knife, also very nice pics.

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:25 pm

I have a 1980 (10 dot) 52033 with no shield and it has a bail (52033R SSP). Based soley on that and your knife, I presume that no shield on the stag 033's in the 80's was fairly common. I've also had enough Case Knives apart to verify what Steve said about the liners being marked with a "M" or "P" to let the folks on the assembly line know which side the liner is for without having to think about it. They are still marked that way today.

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:49 am

Thanks for the reply Elvis. I also thought the 033 may not have shields, but Knifeaholic referred to page 67 in collecting case knives. The '85-'86 53033ss, genuine stag did have a shield. The 52033ssp did not have shields. I have seen other knives with bails that do not have shields but a few had the case logo on the bolster. There is a lot more info on case knives to digest than I thought.
I have some pics of two german made knives that I would like some info on.

knifeaholic · Post by **knifeaholic** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:55 pm

The 52033 SSP was made with glazed finished blades and without a shield and was shown in the catalogs that way from when it was introduced in 1980 through 1986. In 1987 Case changed the 52033 SSP to polished blades and added the shield.

However, the 53033 SS was made only with the shield from the time it was introduced in 1984 through 1989. That is the first 53033 SS I have seen that was made without a shield, but I am sure it left the factory that way. Just an oddball item.

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:56 am

I sent Case an e-mail and got a reply. It said they try to be perfect but sometimes mistakes are made. I guess that means my knife was a mistake and just slipped through the cracks.
I will try to post some pics of the German knives I mentioned. Had computer problems lately but they are corrected now.
The first knife is a Robt. Klaas Kissing Crane with dark wood handles.
The second knife is stamped J. Moede Solingen Rostfrei.

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:08 am

Okay, let me try the pics again.

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:54 am

I forgot to mention that I bought the knives in 1988 in Kaiserslautern, Germany. Most little shops had some sort of knives for sale. I didn't get any papers or boxes with either knife.

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:41 am

I tried researching the two german knives I posted pics of and got some info on the Kissing Crane but not the knife I have. I have not found very much on the J. Moede knife, just that the factory closed in the late 90's. I did see some pictures of J. Moede knives but again not my knife. It was on a German knife forum and all in German so I couldn't read any of the text.
Any info on the knives would be appreciated.

Elvis · Post by **Elvis** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:05 am

Try posting a new thread with the knife maker in the name. Someone will probably recognize it.

tjmurphy · Post by **tjmurphy** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:34 am

Alfred Oldham wrote:I tried researching the two german knives I posted pics of and got some info on the Kissing Crane but not the knife I have. I have not found very much on the J. Moede knife, just that the factory closed in the late 90's. I did see some pictures of J. Moede knives but again not my knife. It was on a German knife forum and all in German so I couldn't read any of the text.
Any info on the knives would be appreciated.

You could always click and drag to highlight the text, then right click and copy, then go to GOOGLE Translate and right click in the dialog box and click paste, to get a translation. Go here:

http://translate.google.com/

Alfred Oldham · Post by **Alfred Oldham** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:07 am

Thanks tjmurphy, I bookmarked that link and will try to translate some of the german text.
As I mentioned before, I am more mechanically inclined and it takes a while for me to figure out things like this. Thanks again

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