Rough Rider Knives

[Hukk]

What Johhnie said.

[Grizlly Adams]

Thanks for the welcome guys! Hope I didn't "step in it" too deep!

[SFC ADP]

I agree with ya Roger, no hate mail here!!!

I still say we put a petition together to let these companies know they are aggravating us!

[stagman]

Americans have been dying for how long to ward off communism
in the USA.
Being a knife collector, I could never bring myself to
put a commie made knife in my pocket.
RR's may be OK for some, thats their preference. But because of the above mentioned comment,
I would rather carry a sharpened railroad spike.

[mikekoz]

I am new to this forum, and have read with interest everybody's opinion on this subject. I thought I would give my two cents worth! I own a few Rough Rider knives, and they seem to be well made for what they cost. American, and other brands I have made in Germany are better quality, but they also cost more. I have a good collection of multitools (Leatherman, Gerber. SOG) and I will tell you that they are much better than the Chinese made models. Most of the Chinese models I have are junk. Some are fine and I use them at work since they are no big loss if I leave them lying around and lose them. There are always exceptions. One of my Gerber multitools is Chinese made and it is every bit as good as the American made models. I purchased a Buck trapper at Walmart a few months back, and was surprised it was Chinese made, but nevertheless, is still a great knife. If the company making them controls the output quality, they should still be a good product.

The problem we have in this country now is mainly our fault. lets face it, most American companies are driven by greed. I have worked for several large companies and they always say "lets see how cheap we can do this, or make this", never do I hear "lets try to do it the better way!" They are always looking for a way to do more with less. It does not work that way. You will get less for less, not more. I see this everyday. We can be in a Walmart on a Saturday afternoon with 30 cash registers and only 5 or 6 of them open with many people waiting in line. Why? because it costs less and increases profits. It also decreases customer service, but Walmart does not care. I also also see this at a lot of American restaurants. Many of them give you bad or indifferent service. Rarely do I get bad service when I go to a "non-American restaurant". Maybe it is because we are pampered here and take too many things for granted. I still think this is the greatest country in the world, and would not live anywhere else, regardless. It is not like when my parents were growing up and Americans put quality first. There has always been items made in other countries, and there always will be. We were still able at one time to make things here and sell them at a fair price, AND make a quality product. We still do with some things, but not enough.

Some of you seem to just hate the Chinese. They are not our enemy. This countries enemies are for the most part in the Middle East. These countries philosophies, politics, and religions are geared towards our demise. I am getting off subject here and getting political, and I HATE politics so I will end this here!!... Everybody, just buy what you want! That is what collecting is, at least to me. I prefer to buy American, but I am not going to put down everything that is made overseas. Remember, crap is crap no matter where it is made, and we make our share of it here also!! Just my two cents!....

[jonet143]

in my opinion... not buying chinese knives to me is not a knife quality issue. supporting a communist country that wants to end the american way of life is. buy what you like is fine with me, i like non-chinese knives.

[Hukk]

Some of you seem to just hate the Chinese. They are not our enemy. This countries enemies are for the most part in the Middle East. These countries philosophies, politics, and religions are geared towards our demise. I am getting off subject here and getting political, and I HATE politics so I will end this here!!... Everybody, just buy what you want! That is what collecting is, at least to me. I prefer to buy American, but I am not going to put down everything that is made overseas. Remember, crap is crap no matter where it is made, and we make our share of it here also!! Just my two cents!....

I beg to differ, the Chinese are more of a threat to the American way of life than the Russians (now defunct USSR) ever were or ever could be despite the "Cold War". They always have been the sleeping giant and have just quietly became the world's #2 super power, depending on which resources you read. No Middle Eastern Country is capable of being a military threat, but there are violent sectarian militant groups in the Middle East, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and a few other smaller groups spread out through the world.
Many former military men served in Vietnam and Korea including some belonging to this site. Many men were killed, wounded, or maimed by Chinese supplied ordnance to the North Vietnamese and the Chinese did play a part in military strategy for NV as well as human shields in North Korea. I think they have a right to "hate" China, after all we "lost" the NV conflict in part by the actions of the Chinese as well as the rather Laissez Faire reactions of the Whitehouse administration.

Chinese knives are crap in part because of the equipment they currently have, this will change, maybe soon. The knives from Taiwan are regarded as being of much higher quality primarily because of the equipment they have, better than Mainland China, they are also upgrading. (see Blade Magazine April and the upcoming May editions "Beasts of the Far East")

A few things to consider:
The Chinese government sent their top students to the most prestigious schools-throughout the world. A virtual army of these PHD students came back as college professors after working in some of the most technological companies throughout the world. The Chinese colleges are now turning out some of the brightest engineers. Many Chinese college students are turning down scholarships from institutions such as Harvard, MIT, and Stanford, preferring their own colleges which they consider better, quite likely they are correct. I worked with a Chinese National who won a math competition for the entire nation of China, she went on to Harvard and 1 other school that I can't remember where she merely aced the programs.

Chinese growth last year was 10.5%, a staggering rate of growth for a nation with over 1.3 Billion people. They are running out of room, their military is huge and becoming equipped with better technologies. We outsourced the technologies that enabled them to build a missile that can shoot down satellites , yeah, OOOPS!

While we are not at war militarily, we are losing the financial war. The Trade Deficit with China is huge. This has also had an effect on the value of the dollar vs. other currencies around the world. The Chinese refusal to float the value of their currency (Yuan) had hurt the American economy. In 2005 they floated the value and prices of Chinese made products should go up. The old fixed value created a $13 Billion dollar trade gap - MONTHLY!

Virtually every store in America has Chinese goods. Especially Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Target, Harbour Freight, and many others. Every time we shop in these stores we help the Chinese economy. Many of these products were made by poorly paid labor. The price of oil grabbed the headlines because of the dollars, the nickels and dimes going to China go unmentioned, but build at such an enormous rate.

I don't hate the people, it's the governmental policies, the patient nickel and dime strategy that is predicted to make them the world's leading economic power sometime after 2020, varies on your source. The general populace, they just want to get ahead, something they adopted from us.

Sorry for the long response, I could go on and on with many other facts and figures, but, the point I'm trying to make is that at the very least, is that the Chinese are very much a threat to our way of life, that makes them an enemy in my book.

China, not Russia, was always the major threat.

[Gmarcus]

Are these guys selling Chinese or Pakistan ?

http://www.anthurian.com/wp/etc/ouch.mpg

[MITCH RAPP]

Very funny video! It also pretty much makes the case for buying

quality steel. When you play with JUNK, you are going to get

hurt!

[Hukk]

Hmmn, seems to be a Darwin's Awards honorable mention to me. Only one cure for stupidity!

[Ratchet]

That was one of the funniest videos I've seen, especially the comment at the end .... just about split my gut laughing .....

just goes to prove, you get what you pay for!

Ratchet

[Grizlly Adams]

Har!

Barkeep! Beer for my horse!

[orvet]

Check out this video at Jib Jab. I think they have a good handle on what is happening.

Dale

[Hukk]

Check out this video at Jib Jab. I think they have a good handle on what is happening.

Dale

I think this may be the one, very funny

http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/jokebox/j ... eid/110821

[QuasiHoosier]

I inherited a small knife collection years ago when my grandfather died. I always liked pocket knives but until then I rarely bought one. I wanted to know a bit about collecting so a read a book or two on the subject. One of those books I read gave a great piece of advice which I still follow today "collect what you like".
One big problem I see is that many people approach collecting as if it where investing. It is a hobby. Yes, I know some people have made money collecting things. But they are rare, and any honest collector will tell you that they have spent far more than they have made. If you are looking to make money or get appreciating assets then go out and do that -- hopefully with something much more liquid than a bunch of pocket knives. On the other hand if you are collecting, "a hobby", then buy what makes you happy, buy what you are proud to own. Regardless of who made it or who approves of it.
Fact, for the price many China made knives are simply great values. Knives are a bit like ladies purses; yeah that's right I said it! Just for the record I know little about knives and even less about ladies purses. But, this I do know, one of my wife’s friends likes Coach purses which apparently cost a fortune. By my observation they are not any better than the purses my wife buys real cheap at the GAP or somewhere. If you are buying purses or knives you can pay big bucks for brand name. Many knife collectors are just like a bunch of ladies, trying to impress each other with their purses. If they thought it would boost their ego they would carry all those over-priced knives around in a $500 purse.
Look -- I'm not trying to pick a fight (too late, right), but let's get real. The reality is that many US industries are going to bit the dust when pitted against foreign competition. The reasons are varied, but typically it boils down to cost of labor and materials. Americans have all too often priced themselves out of the market. I do like many Rough Rider knives and I have bought a few. I also like Case knives, but almost never buy one because of price (4 to 10x more).

[mooseman]

In my opinion rough riders are good only for users, they have absolutely no conceivable collector value, maybe wait a hundred years and they will but hey what knife woudn't

[SFC ADP]

I guess it is all in the eyes of the beholder.
Some people collect knives,
some people collect junk.
Other's collect purses.
What category do you want to put Rough Rider Knives is really up to you!

::blah::

[jonet143]

hey quasi, for your first post you chose a controversial subject. good luck with your collection and welcome to aapk.

[Hukk]

Well my dislike is partly political. In my post, the second down on page 3, I said that China grew by 10.5%. After the final tally and adjustment the actual Chinese GNP grew by 12.7% . Every company in the world would love double digit growth, that an entire country of 1.3+ Billion people did it is just mind boggling. The only other time another country did that was the United States in the mid to late 1950's, but much of that was USA military spending. That's not the case with China, that is primarly China being the manufacturing base for much of the world.

I think the Rough Rider needs a lot of improvement before I call it a quality knife. BUT at the same time I feel that Case's quality and Bulldog Brand's quaulity has suffered also. I have purchased some Saddlehorns from Case and that old Case quality is gone.

Why is it that when people mention Chinese knives, they ALWAYS mention Rough Riders? Because they are so cheap? I've taken apart Rough Riders and they are like any other knife when taken down. Problem is that there is no durability at all built in. If I'm going to buy a Chinese knife, I will buy Steel Warrior, a far better knife for a couple dollars more than a Rough Rider.
My son and I took some saddlehorns apart and in what I saw in fit and finish - walk and talk - better made was that the Steel Warrior came out on top followed by Case, then Bulldog last on the knives we worked on.

I plan to repeat that test with the same knives but add a couple Rough Riders. I hope to have some tools rigged up to test some actual parameters such as how much does it take to open/close the blades.

We were really surprised to find that the Case knife had so much slop, that the Steel Warrior crisp walk/talk and hey these had half stops. With flawless fit and finish, they could only be #1. Bulldog and Case were close, second and third.

For Rough Riders, I use them for practicing filework, because they are cheap, I'm not out of a lot of money when I throw it in the trash. Only if I blow it.

Why would someone buy a Rough Rider when they could get a Steel Warrior for just 2 bucks more? It also will never be a collectable, but it's a better knife by far. At least that's the case with the models I've had apart. Still don't like the politics, but give credit where it's due, by far the Steel Warrior is out in front of Rough Rider.

[QuasiHoosier]

I'm not a pocket knife aficionado as many members here are. That’s why I started reading this message board. I wanted to see what other thought of the whole Chinese knife issue, the RR in particular. My grandfather loved pocketknives (you would expect nothing less from a Kentucky boy). He would without a doubt have sentiment similar to Hukk. I get that; and on many levels I share much of that sentiment.

Here's the thing though. I bought my first RR by accident at a flea market. This one had no markings on it to distinguish its origin. I was skeptical of it place of origin and its value, but I bought it anyway. It was a very nice looking and feeling knife. The knife: 4-blade congress, mop w/ abalone inlay. At the time I had never heard of Rough Rider but the $15 price was worth the risk. I knew I could not buy a Case just like it for under 80 bucks or so. Why it didn’t have the CHINA etch on the back of a blade I’ll never know – but I’m glad it didn’t. If it had I would have passed and never knew how much fun it is to own and give away these little knives. As such I now find myself defending them a bit. My own granddad, if alive, would disown me over it. For me to acknowledge that RR and others like them are decent knives, for any purpose, should not be a knock or threat to traditional US makers. Competition is what kills the weak and bolsters the strong.

As for collectable, it’s anybody’s game…

Something to think about:
Approx. 20-25% of the world’s population lives in China,
Only about 4% in USA.
Thus, 3 or 4% of the world's pop. thinks products made in Asia or Mexico are junk; the other 90+% probably do not.
What are the chances that the value of "foreign made collectibles" will out pace US made collectibles?
Are internet market places like Ebay opening up a world market where buyers, sellers and collectors have a different geo-political worldview than what we Americans are accustomed to?

AND, jonet143, thanks for the warm welcome.
Sadly I'm afraid I'm making more enemies than friends.

[useem]

No enemies here, just opinions. Welcome to the best place on the NET.

[jonet143]

you can buy rr knives on ebay for $5 including shipping. enjoy!
most of the bad feelings about chinese knives is not because of quality, some are pretty well made. it's simply about the political/economic implications. you won't convert many here but there are a few with like thoughts as you. maybe ya'll can discuss the merits of chinese knives in a thread that is not born out of argument. american labor versus chinese slave labor? hmmmmmm. maybe if your job was outsourced to china, your grandoa's thoughts would mean more. this is a hot subject so don't be offended by some of the answers you might get. anyway welcome to the sight and i hope there are other knife related subjects that interest you.

[QuasiHoosier]

Clearly, one can not discuss the merits of China made... anything without running into some very controversial issues. I'm not looking to convert, just offer a different perspective. The I hate everyone but Americans (and only the Americans who agree with me) angle is almost always the first and most persistent point of view.
Personally I have no love for the Chinese political system or communist dictatorships in general.
I've been to China, I found that the people I met there were kind and friendly, it is hard to hate people you have actually met. My grandfather hated Japanese people, as a WWII vet, the Japanese he met we not kind or friendly. We are all shaped by our experiences.
Based on my observation most Chinese people want the same things out of life that most of us want. They, unfortunately, were born into a crappy system.
What I find ironic is that here we are discussing the merits of RRs and dare I say that probably all of us are doing so using China made PC hardware.

[justold52]

QuasiHoosier you said "On the other hand if you are collecting, "a hobby", then buy what makes you happy, buy what you are proud to own. Regardless of who made it or who approves of it.

OK I just did that and want to sure it with you all.

Model cars is not my "hobby". I was searching for knives on E-bay and hit on a model car site some how (???).
I looked and what the man had. I saw a car my dad bought new back when I was 5 years old. I think she was my first love other than my mom. O yes she was YELLOW...
I grow up in the time when big motors meant some thing (POWER).
But yet when I saw a model of this car my dad had I just wanted to get one like her. So I did. She only had a 6 cylinder...

Collecting knives that you have feelings for is special only to you.
Sure most of us collectors want them to increase in value. Many times we wish that Dad or Grand Dad would have bought 10 of the same kind (on some knives). Just for the increase value. We mite sell 5 and keep 5.

I must agree that ones EGO has a big part in collecting any thing.

QuasiHoosier you can buy as many CHINA made knives as you want and I hope you have fun in giving them away... .. ... I will admit I have some but really do not want to show them off here.

You please come back here to AAPK. We can always learn and you can too. I did not see any one picking on what you said. To make you mad.
So from me to you WELLCOME and lets have some fun and SMILE...

OOPS I have to SHOW OFF MY MODEL CAR. It was made in CHINA..

[SFC ADP]

It's all a matter of taste.
If a person really wants to collect Chinese knives, then they are going to collect Chinese knives. I don't have to like it, or support it, but that is what they want to do. Welcome to America, where you can make choices.
So I don't collect Chinese knives, that i smy choice, and I have my reasons why.
Just like I don't like collecting celluloids, I have some, but I try to stay away from them. That is my choice.
So the Chinese knife Rough Rider debate will always be just that, a huge debate of why or why not people would want to collect them. As long as the debate is kept on a professional level, and no name calling or abuse goes into effect, we can talk about it all day long. As you can see this thread was started quite a few months ago, and I will bet a shiny penny it will come up again in another couple months!

But the most important thing is, we are talking about knives!!!