Help with balisong (butterfly knife) ...

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:38 pm

Long time no post ... I was needing some help with a balisong. This belonged to a friend of mine, who got it from a vet who brought over a lot of items from the Philippines when he served in that region, during WWII. This was one of those items ... this butterfly knife. There are no markings on it anywhere, and I'm thinking about selling it soon, and I want to call it a WWII Philippine balisong ... does it appear to look as though this would be an accurate assessment of the knife ? Is there some reason to think it may not be a WWII Philippine balisong ? I don't like guessing, and while I trust my friend, I want to go a bit of the extra distance and ask the forum-at-large who may know more definitively.

Hope this is the right part of the forum ... if it's not, I don't mind a mod moving it

Thanks in advance for any help

wazu013 · Post by **wazu013** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:27 pm

It looks like what you think but to be sure contact the people at the link below. The know just about everything about Filipino Balisongs. I think the main man there is Jay. He checks in on some of the forums so even if you post this one around he might answer you. Check him out.
http://www.pinoysteel.com/

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:37 pm

wazu013 wrote:It looks like what you think but to be sure contact the people at the link below. The know just about everything about Filipino Balisongs. I think the main man there is Jay. He checks in on some of the forums so even if you post this one around he might answer you. Check him out.
http://www.pinoysteel.com/

That's cool ... I sent an email to the main contact email on the site, with a link back to my post here, so perhaps I'll get a response

Thanks

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:41 am

Hard to say whether it is WWII vintage or not.That style has been around for quite awhile.Looks to have bone bolsters and horn scales.Are there any colored dots on the lockpiece?
Here are a few of mine;a couple of which date from WWII.Note the dots in the handles.
The ones referred to are the bottom one in pic#1 and the bottom 2 in pic#2

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:47 am

knife7knut wrote:Hard to say whether it is WWII vintage or not.That style has been around for quite awhile.Looks to have bone bolsters and horn scales.Are there any colored dots on the lockpiece?
Here are a few of mine;a couple of which date from WWII.Note the dots in the handles.
The ones referred to are the bottom one in pic#1 and the bottom 2 in pic#2

No dots on the lockpiece ... although what I thought was interesting was the tang pin is literally just a small pin that runs through the main pivot hole (hope I'm using the correct terms) ... and there is nothing to keep me from pushing it all the way through. I mean, it doesn't fall out and it's not loose or anything like that, but I could push it through if I tried:

And I thought the scales were horn and the bolsters were probably bone as well. Does the construction of the latch help date/location it at all ? ---

Thanks for the reference pics also btw

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:50 am

knife7knut wrote:Hard to say whether it is WWII vintage or not.That style has been around for quite awhile.Looks to have bone bolsters and horn scales.Are there any colored dots on the lockpiece?
Here are a few of mine;a couple of which date from WWII.Note the dots in the handles.
The ones referred to are the bottom one in pic#1 and the bottom 2 in pic#2

Also, in that second pic of yours, mine is almost a dead ringer for the second to last from the bottom one. It looks almost identical (at least from the one pic). Do you know the history of that second to last one from the bottom (in the 2nd pic) ?

reddirtknives · Post by **reddirtknives** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:12 am

The lock piece or clasp is the one thing that doesnt look proper to me but it could have been replaced or since they were known for using whatever scrap metals were laying around to make these might have been the closest easiest fix at the time for the maker.
I want to try and make a guess at the WW2 era knives of K7K's collection. First pic only 1) 2nd from the bottom ~ Picture 2) the 3rd from the top and second from the bottom. Are they all from the Philippines? Some are looking Japanese and 1 looks USA for sure. Seeing the blades can help a lot. I sold my best WWII Philippino Balisong to a Philippino Fella who had one like it back home and had to have it. $125 and he was happy. I really tried to push a couple others on him instead but he knew what he wanted so I provided and it came at a time that helped me out as well and I know another blade lover now.

I know this one is off subject, diff era and other side of the world but cool nonetheless

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:12 pm

wazu013 wrote:It looks like what you think but to be sure contact the people at the link below. The know just about everything about Filipino Balisongs. I think the main man there is Jay. He checks in on some of the forums so even if you post this one around he might answer you. Check him out.
http://www.pinoysteel.com/

Just to follow up ... Jay was nice enough to reply and full of helpful info

His summarized synopsis: probably made right after WWII, Filipino, a transitional type of knife ... the latch may have been WWII scrap metal/etc. Thanks for the tip and the re-direct, that was very helpful

reddirtknives wrote:The lock piece or clasp is the one thing that doesnt look proper to me but it could have been replaced or since they were known for using whatever scrap metals were laying around to make these might have been the closest easiest fix at the time for the maker.
I want to try and make a guess at the WW2 era knives of K7K's collection. First pic only 1) 2nd from the bottom ~ Picture 2) the 3rd from the top and second from the bottom. Are they all from the Philippines? Some are looking Japanese and 1 looks USA for sure. Seeing the blades can help a lot. I sold my best WWII Philippino Balisong to a Philippino Fella who had one like it back home and had to have it. $125 and he was happy. I really tried to push a couple others on him instead but he knew what he wanted so I provided and it came at a time that helped me out as well and I know another blade lover now.

I know this one is off subject, diff era and other side of the world but cool nonetheless

Nice knife

So $125 and the guy was happy ? Hmm ... what's your opinion of the ball-park going rate for these knives, since you can't sell them on places like ebay and such ?

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:29 pm

reddirtknives wrote: I want to try and make a guess at the WW2 era knives of K7K's collection. First pic only 1) 2nd from the bottom ~ Picture 2) the 3rd from the top and second from the bottom. Are they all from the Philippines? Some are looking Japanese and 1 looks USA for sure. Seeing the blades can help a lot.

Strangely enough the two knives you picked out are both of recent(last 25 years or so)manufacture.The blades are traditional style so I believe they are of Filipino manufacture.I will dig them out and post pics of them open.
The 3 that I mentioned before all came out of a huge military collection that a friend of mine purchased and I bought a lot of the civilian stuff(he was strictly a military collector)about 40 years ago.As far as I know these knives are authentic Filipino but I don't know if they are WWII vintage.

wazu013 · Post by **wazu013** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:29 am

twdroppoint wrote:
wazu013 wrote:It looks like what you think but to be sure contact the people at the link below. The know just about everything about Filipino Balisongs. I think the main man there is Jay. He checks in on some of the forums so even if you post this one around he might answer you. Check him out.
http://www.pinoysteel.com/
Just to follow up ... Jay was nice enough to reply and full of helpful info His summarized synopsis: probably made right after WWII, Filipino, a transitional type of knife ... the latch may have been WWII scrap metal/etc. Thanks for the tip and the re-direct, that was very helpful

I'm glad Jay helped you out. I know he's hands on when it comes to the Batangas balis. He knows the makers and buys their pieces then cleans them up for re-sale around the world. As you can see from his website he comes up with some interesting items. His reputation is A+ and well earned.

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:57 am

wazu013 wrote:
twdroppoint wrote:
wazu013 wrote:It looks like what you think but to be sure contact the people at the link below. The know just about everything about Filipino Balisongs. I think the main man there is Jay. He checks in on some of the forums so even if you post this one around he might answer you. Check him out.
http://www.pinoysteel.com/
Just to follow up ... Jay was nice enough to reply and full of helpful info His summarized synopsis: probably made right after WWII, Filipino, a transitional type of knife ... the latch may have been WWII scrap metal/etc. Thanks for the tip and the re-direct, that was very helpful
I'm glad Jay helped you out. I know he's hands on when it comes to the Bantagas balis. He knows the makers and buys their pieces then cleans them up for re-sale around the world. As you can see from his website he comes up with some interesting items. His reputation is A+ and well earned.

Yeah not only did he provide information, but the *why's* behind why the information is what it is

I didn't ask permission to quote the information, so I won't ... but it was obvious he had a passion for it, and it's always cool seeing someone in their element

Thanks again for that

reddirtknives · Post by **reddirtknives** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:33 am

Haha… three strikes and I'm outa there. Well, we know those three aren't them

Where to sell? Maybe you can sneak it onto ebay using crafty keywords that would get members who might be buyers to at least view it. Maybe with 1 day auctions and a fair buy it now price along with an opening bid that is just under the buy it now price.

Goodluck Oh! you might try right here on AAPK

twdroppoint · Post by **twdroppoint** » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:26 pm

Okay I asked Jay if I could post his comments about the knife, since they were so informative ... he was cool with it, so hopefully this will be a good resource post concerning the OP knife in question

---

"Very interesting transition piece! I believe it was made right
after WWII. Here's why.

Before WWII, I don't think balisongs ever featured bolsters. I'm
pretty sure a GI asked for them and they were made that way from then
on! Originally all balisongs were copies of the German/French design
and had stag on the handles. Well, stag is hard to come by in the
Philippines, and even harder to come by now because people are
shooting all the deer. A few species are probably extinct already.
Horse bone and water buffalo horn have long been used as substitutes.
I've actually imported antlers from the US, Canada and even sambar
stag (preban) to put on the handles with excellent results.

Also, the latch is aluminum. The Phils doesn't have much bauxite
(aluminum ore) in the ground, so the latch was most likely salvaged
from American or Japanese waste--possibly from a downed aircraft!

The handles are kalabaw (Filipino water buffalo horn) with bone, or
possibly even stag, bolsters. Stag, when ground down, is pretty much
bone. I have seen pieces with stag bolsters before, but horse bone is
also a possibility since Batangas (where balisongs are made) was, and
is, Filipino-Spanish-style cowboy territory.

Hope that helps! I've never seen one quite like yours (although I've
seen a lot that pretty much look like it)."

reddirtknives wrote:Haha… three strikes and I'm outa there. Well, we know those three aren't them
Where to sell? Maybe you can sneak it onto ebay using crafty keywords that would get members who might be buyers to at least view it. Maybe with 1 day auctions and a fair buy it now price along with an opening bid that is just under the buy it now price. Goodluck Oh! you might try right here on AAPK

Yeah that's not a bad idea ... maybe I'll post an ad in the wanted section of the forum a little later today lol

I can kind of understand ebay's dilemma on items like these, but at the same time, if they are old enough, they are "antique", and historical collectibles, not just weapons. You can buy a head hunter axe on ebay, but not a balisong lol.

Hey thanks to all as always ... much appreciated