Antique English m.o.p. multi-tool pocket knife

[Jonty]

Hi,

This is the first posting from a new member, English, 77 years old, a rookie in the world of knives, and needing help with fully identifying and appraising a pocket knife which I inherited from my own father over 25 years ago. It has its original leather case with a purse clasp fastening, and has lain in the same dressing table drawer for as long as I can remember. It has only just come out to be appreciated as I slow down and look for things to do which are interesting but don't require too much energy......

The knife has seven features, including a silver fruit knife blade with a full hallmark for Sheffield 1918 .....so I guess this dates the knife pretty accurately. From close examination, I reckon that the knife has never been used. The blades and other features appear to to have their original sharp edges, and there is no evidence of wear, sharpening, replacement, or restoration. All in all, a lovely thing.

Attempting to pinpoint the specific maker via on line research has proved difficult as the silver blade has the maker's mark J.A.S., while the primary steel cutting blade has the name JOHN COPELY & SONS on one side and XX on the other. The secondary steel cutting blade bears yet another maker's mark, "I CUT MY WAY" and a stylised mincing knife.....which appears to be the trademark for William Rodgers.

My questions to "those who know these things" may well reveal my rookie status (probably in floodlights), but any answers, comments, or suggestions provided by members would be greatly appreciated. They are....

1. Is it likely that the knife was assembled by a cutler from components sourced from different factories ?

2. Would it be possible to attribute the knife to one cutler from the blade information ?

3. In collecting terms, is this knife rare, does it have any value, and would it be of interest to a pocket knife collector ?

SEE IMAGES BELOW......

[PigSticker]

That's a beauty that you have-don't know much about English made knives probably a Rogers made--I'd say that knife would fetch some big big $$$

[Jonty]

Hi Pigsticker,

Many thanks for the first response to my first posting. Very helpful !

A couple of details I mistakenly left out of my description.........

The knife measures 3 1/4 inches long, when closed, and it weighs 2 1/4 ounces.

Cheers.

Jonty.

[0078]

I just sold I cut my way pocket knife, all the blades were stamped that way. I have never seen a knife like yours to compare it with anything. Does the knife open and close like it should?

[gew8805]

It is a beauty! If I recall correctly, "I Cut My Way" was a William Rodgers trademark stamped on many of their blades. Rodgers was a maker of a complete range of knives, from high quality knives to durable working knives with excellent quality steel as well as other materials.

[Jonty]

Thanks for the comments, guys.

In reply to the question from 0078...... The knife opens and closes perfectly. It's just about as good as a brand new knife, and obviously has not had much (if any) use. Certainly no use by me, nor any by my father by the look of it. Protected by the leather case. I suspect.

A couple more images.....

[Iron Hoarder]

Since the silver blade, the main blade and the secondary blade all have different makers stamps it has definitely either been repaired at some point or was made from parts. At least one knife "Hospital" was run by one firm just to repair knives. Since it isn't fully matching the overall value isn't high. It's real value is probably as a family heirloom. Aside from someone like me that like quirky knives including parts knives there wouldn't be a wide appeal to collectors. It is a fairly rare combination of blades though being a lobster pattern smokers knife with a silver fruit blade and a cigar fork.

[knife7knut]

Since the silver blade, the main blade and the secondary blade all have different makers stamps it has definitely either been repaired at some point or was made from parts. At least one knife "Hospital" was run by one firm just to repair knives. Since it isn't fully matching the overall value isn't high. It's real value is probably as a family heirloom. Aside from someone like me that like quirky knives including parts knives there wouldn't be a wide appeal to collectors. It is a fairly rare combination of blades though being a lobster pattern smokers knife with a silver fruit blade and a cigar fork.

I think you may be onto something IH;I have a small pearl folder that has blades from J.A.Henckels and George Wostenholm and the back of one is stamped C.Langbein New York.Langbein was a knife wholesaler who was in business(according to Bernard Levine)from 1880 to 1890.Their specialty was knives and the repair thereof. You can tell this one has been worked on as the coin edges of the liners are worn away on the end where the repair was made.
The silver blade may not be a replacement;I have a Needham Brothers pearl knife that sports an ivory blade so a silver one wouldn't be out of the question and a knife manufacturer would probably outsource a silver blade.
Here's a pic of the Needham knife and the I*XL/Henckels.Sorry for the fuzzy pics.

[Jonty]

My thanks to both Iron Hoarder and knife7knut for their interest and their contributions. Iron Hoarder opened up two very compelling lines of thought.....

The first, that the knife has been repaired or rebuilt in its past. This, I think I can discount with almost 100% certainty as I can recall the knife in its present form from when I was a child, over 70 years ago. My father kept it in a particular dressing table drawer together with a host of other interesting objects that I used to "visit and explore"" when he was not about. In addition, I think my father would have owned this knife from new, probably as a coming of age gift, and if it had suffered a broken blade or some other disaster, he was the sort of man who would have thrown it away and bought another one, rather than having it repaired. His interest in pocket knives must have been about zero, though, as I can not recall as single occasion when I saw him carrying one, or using one, although he owned a well-stocked tool case.

I think that my view on repair/restoration is also borne out by the fact that, even under a glass, there is no evidence of any repair or restoration work on this knife.

Iron Hoarder's second premise, that the knife may have been assembled by a cutler from parts sourced from other people's stock was, I thought, a more likely scenario. A very interesting one, and certainly one worth investigating.

Now I may be a rookie with pocket knives, but research is right up my street so I have just spent some hours with that nice Mister Google and was surprised with what I discovered. I offer an abridged version.......

The cutler's firm of William Rodgers (I CUT MY WAY) was founded in 1830 and stayed independent until 1870 when it was assimilated by John Clarke, who also bought the rights to both Rodgers' trading name and trademark. In 1983, Clarke, Rodgers, and an unknown host of other names and trademarks were bought by their present owners, Egginton.

John Copley & Sons was founded in 1870, and lasted until 1892 as an independent, then it was swallowed up by a bigger fish (possibly John Clarke), and the rights to both trading name and trademark went with it.

Sheffield's company records for this period, right up to the First World War, 1914-1918, have huge gaps in them, and John Copely & Sons appears to have fallen through one of them. However, it is acknowledged that, at this time, smaller firms were being bought up by larger firms in huge numbers, particularly in the years before the war as companies lined up to compete for military contracts. I think it is reasonable to speculate that, at this time, the names and marks for both Rodgers and Copely ended up under the same ownership.

The maker's mark on the silver blade, J.A.S. , is not on record in any of the silver hallmark 'bibles' although, yet again, lack of records is not an unusual situation with smaller silversmiths.

My Conclusions :-

1. It is possible, and very likely, that the names and trademarks of Wm. Rodgers, John Copley, and the mysterious J.A.S. silversmith were all owned by one larger firm at the time this particular knife was made, and their trade names and trademarks continued to be used on products from the new owners.

2. In 1918, right at the end of the war, when goods started to be produced for the domestic market again, available stock was used to facilitate this move with little concern for the markings on existing blade tangs.......although it has to be said that the only name amongst all the other markings on this knife is that of John Copley & Sons, so I would be inclined to call it a John Copley knife.

3. Despite the results of the research undertaken, this pocket knife may well be considered a mongrel amongst thoroughbreds by pocket knife purists. I can accept this. But mongrels frequently have more character, and are more interesting, than their pedigree kin. I am happy with what I have.

Now......if you have taken the trouble to read this far, without falling asleep, may I thank you for sticking with it and invite you to make comment on any, or all, of what has been written on the subject.

Jonty.

[Mossdancer]

Welcome aboard and to this insidious world of cutlery accumulations.
I offer this URL for your assistance. Please see the last listing under JA.
I would say that Mr. Scholes made at least the Sterling fruit blade.
moss

http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Make ... eld-J.html

[Jonty]

Hi Mossdancer,

Many thanks for the input....and particularly for taking the time to go through it all. Thanks, too, for taking the trouble to respond so rapidly.

I did see the entry for Mr Scholes, but he went out of business in 1908, after becoming known for his silver ferrules and fish knives......and my knife is hallmarked for 1918.

Jonty.

[Mossdancer]

Yes, and that was the reason for my post. The blade evidently was made years before the knife was assembled or the Scholes firm was kept active or might have been kept active by some of his progeny. A long list of possibilities hence the reference to insidious hobby.
moss

[Jonty]

Thanks Moss.

Wowser ! I see what you mean about insidious ! All we need now is a conspiracy theory !

I have to confess that I know a little more about English silver and its hallmarks than I do about English pocket knives, and I have never before been in a situation where I have had to consider the assay date letter on a new piece to be at least ten years after the year of manufacture. But you are correct, and your view is a distinct possibility. It opens yet another can of worms for research........

Thanks again.

Jonty

[wlf]

There may be inserts in the handles that pull out.I can't really tell,but it looks as if the pearl has a piece of metal at the end of the scale.Commonly a toothpick and tweezers in opposite scales.

Such as seen above the clevis on this IXL.(not my knife)

I may be responding to an allusion on my part,but it seems there is a fault or an insert there on the scale.

In case I missed welcoming you to the forum,welcome now.

[jerryd6818]

Jonty -- Welcome to AAPK. It's a pleasure to have you aboard.

[Jonty]

My thanks to wlf and to Jerry for their welcoming wishes and contributions. Appreciated !

You have no idea how much knowledge and pleasure I am getting from this venture into AAPK. A new field for me, but very satisfying.

I know the type of inserts that Jerry mentions, but there are none on this particular knife. I have just double-checked, in case I had missed something.

Kind regards,

Jonty