New 3 Blade Army Air Corps Knife?

[jlholdings]

I recently purchased what I believe to be a WW2 era, 3 blade Army Air Corps pocket knife. The seller claimed that this was part of a collection owned by past Camillus Cutlery President, Nilo Miori. I was told that it was a part of the original "Ulster" factory collection, of which Mr. Miori owned a portion. It bears the WW2 "Made in USA" tang stamp which was manufactured under a joint venture between Ulster and Imperial for the war effort. This knife has brass liners, which supposedly was used only in the very early part of WW2. I have never seen another 3 blade Army Air Corps knife, of this type, with this tang stamp. I have seen others manufactured by Imperial and Camillus, but not this particular knife. The knife still exhibits the residue from the original factory polishing. Anyway, I could not pass it up. Does anyone else have an example of this knife? Was this knife ever manufactured in quantity? I think it must be fairly uncommon.

[tjmurphy]

It is the correct pattern and blade config. for the USAAF knife but I think the "Made in U.S.A." stamp was a CAMILLUS stamp made for Sears & Roebuck. It surely is a beauty of a knife and anyone would be proud to have the bragging rights on that one.

EDIT: I may stand corrected. Goins lists that stamp as having been made by CAMILLUS, SCHRADE and ULSTER, but that it was a Sears & Roebuck stamp.

[jerryd6818]

That's a super nice example you have there J.L.


This is a four line made by Camillus. I had it rehandled because it had the "shrinky dink" handles on it and they were badly shrunk.

The top knife (I think) is the original as I received it.

Top Knife original.JPG (44.97 KiB) Viewed 5627 times

Rehandled by Shannon Walker.

[tjmurphy]

This is the four line CAMILLUS USAAF Utility that I have - steel liners and bolsters and Rogers bone handles.

[jerryd6818]

Yours has a long pull on the main and bone handles. Mine has a nail nick and (had) synthetic handles. I wonder if that indicates yours was earlier in the war and mine was towards the end or shortly after.

[tjmurphy]

See here Jerry http://www.scribd.com/doc/39088889/Cami ... 41-to-1946 and scroll down to the knife in question. Mine is from Dec. 1941 and yours is from April, 1942...apparently, based on specifications.

[tjmurphy]

I recently purchased what I believe to be a WW2 era, 3 blade Army Air Corps pocket knife. The seller claimed that this was part of a collection owned by past Camillus Cutlery President, Nilo Miori. I was told that it was a part of the original "Ulster" factory collection, of which Mr. Miori owned a portion. It bears the WW2 "Made in USA" tang stamp which was manufactured under a joint venture between Ulster and Imperial for the war effort. This knife has brass liners, which supposedly was used only in the very early part of WW2. I have never seen another 3 blade Army Air Corps knife, of this type, with this tang stamp. I have seen others manufactured by Imperial and Camillus, but not this particular knife. The knife still exhibits the residue from the original factory polishing. Anyway, I could not pass it up. Does anyone else have an example of this knife? Was this knife ever manufactured in quantity? I think it must be fairly uncommon.

Apparently, in 1942, Imperial made 540,000 of the USAAF utility knives, but they should have had synthetic handles, another reason that I think that your knife was made for Sears & Roebuck. No reference to ULSTER as per number of units.

[jlholdings]

Thanks for the pics guys. Some nice old war dogs there! I have seen the Camillus and the Imperial before. Michael Silvey's book, "Pocket Knives of the United States Military", on page 62, shows a pic of the Camillus version and states that Camillus manufactured about a million of these Air Corps knives. I have no info on the MADE IN U.S.A. version. Does anyone have another that has the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp? I was wondering if my knife ever went into full production, and if so, how many were made. I have never seen another like it.

T.J., in the book I cite above, on page 52, it states that these knives, "were marked only "Made in USA" and these are probably the product of a joint effort by Imperial Knife Company and Ulster Knife Company..." Of course at the time, he was referring to Engineer's knives, which this is not. But, I also have another Air Corps 3 blade knife (with the can opener) which bears the same tang stamp and Engineer Knives. Here is one...

[tjmurphy]

All that I know is that both Goins and Price & Zalesky state that the "Made in U.S.A." stamp was a Sears & Roebuck stamp made by CAMILLUS Do either of your knives have a pattern number stamped on them?

[jlholdings]

That knife is the version with the straight jigging pattern. Here is another version of the Engineer's Knife with the early war can opener and Made in USA tang...

[Beechtree]

Wow jlholdings, nice collection. They are in fine shape. The bone on all the knives here is fantastic

[tjmurphy]

If I had to guess, I would say that the first, four-blade utility knife that you show is a re-handle. I don't recognize that jigging as either Imperial or CAMILLUS jigging. Again, just guessing. Got to stick to the Sears & Roebuck story. Where you at Dimitri??

[jlholdings]

No pattern numbers. The knives produced for the military bear no other markings other than the tang stamp. These knives also have steel liners and bolsters due to the wartime demand for brass, other than the very early examples. TJ, I do not know anything about the Camillus Made in USA stamp to which you refer, but I mainly collect military knives. Everything about the knife that is the subject of this thread screams early WW2 to me. It has brass liners, Rogers jigged bone handle scales, the tang stamp, the size of 3 5/8 inch, and the blade configuration is a match to the 3 blade Air Corps knife. TJ, the book I cited also depicts and discusses the straight jigging pattern which I posted as a variation on page 54. It is not a rehandle.

Thanks Beechtree. It has taken many years to find nice examples.

[tjmurphy]

I checked Ebay for the book and wonder if 2002 is the latest edition. Would like to get a copy of that.

I am thinking that Dimitri posted a comment about the "Made in U.S.A." stamp some time ago but cannot remember the main topic. I am hoping that he will pop in, and if he agrees with you, I will have learned a very important piece of information. Please don't think that I am trying to down-grade the OP knife as I think that it is an AWSOME knife with absolutely no negetives. I think everybody knows how I lub dem boney handles.

[jlholdings]

TJ, I just checked the Camillus tang stamps out on the net to which you refer. Those tang stamps were "Made in USA" and were for Sears & Roebuck. There is no question about that. I agree. But the knife I am referring to is marked "MADE IN U.S.A.". They are different stamps. I am referring to the knives manufactured for the military only. There were only two variations in the scripting of the tang stamp for the military that I am aware of; MADE IN U.S.A. or MADE IN USA, all in caps. I mistyped the tang stamp earlier, which may have misled, and for that I apologize. The pics at the top of the thread shows the stamp to which I refer though.

[jlholdings]

TJ, it is an awesome book and I think that 2002 is the latest edition, but don't hold me to it. It is full of color photos and descriptions and deals only with military pocket knives. I think it is an invaluable resource to military pocket knife collectors.

[jerryd6818]

TJ, I just checked the Camillus tang stamps out on the net to which you refer. Those tang stamps were "Made in USA" and were for Sears & Roebuck. There is no question about that. I agree. But the knife I am referring to is marked "MADE IN U.S.A.". They are different stamps. I am referring to the knives manufactured for the military only. There were only two variations in the scripting of the tang stamp for the military that I am aware of; MADE IN U.S.A. or MADE IN USA, all in caps. I mistyped the tang stamp earlier, which may have misled, and for that I apologize. The pics at the top of the thread shows the stamp to which I refer though.

That opens a whole 'nother can of worms J.L.. Peek out this tang stamp and then take a look at the knife it's on. No pattern stamp on the back of the main blade and the shield is different than any other 72 or clone I've seen.

I realize the topic is not 72s but the tang stamp on this knife fits right in with the discussion.

Edit: Not only does this knife have 1st Gen blade assortment but the secondary blades have half-stops. Main does not but then the tang is so worn it also does not have any snap. Note the Camillus tab handle attachments. It also has saber grind on the main (both sides) with swedge on the mark side and pile side of the blade. The liners, rocker pin and bolsters are nickel silver.

So what do y'all think the pedigree is on this puppy?

[Shearer]

Jerry I have two, four line Camillus knives with the same shield .That could make that knife made from 1941 to 1946.
Grant

[jlholdings]

Jerry, very interesting knife you have. I never claimed that "only" military knives were stamped that way though. Search Google and you will find info on engineer knives tang stamped MADE IN U.S.A.

[jerryd6818]

I did not mean to imply that you did say "only" military knives were stamped that way. I'm on an information hunt and in my world speculation is a welcome part of discussion.

I added to the post after you had posted Grant. The thing that makes me think it's not that era is the nickel silver liners, rocker pin and bolsters. As J.L. mentioned earlier, brass was dedicated to the war effort during those years and nickel silver is a form of brass, sometimes called white brass. My guess is immediately after the war which ended in the summer of 1945. I think this may be one of the very first Camillus 72s. It's the MADE IN U.S.A. stamp that I'm curious about. Were the design people working on this pattern before the war ended and they jumped into production of this knife with what they had at hand, tang stamps and all?

[jlholdings]

Brass and nickel silver could be seen on some military knives until around 1942. Then later in the war in 1945, brass liners were again seen in the stainless steel Kingston demo knives and other manufacturers knives. This is a generality, of course, as you can find examples of brass being utilized for the military if it was deemed necessary during mid-war. An example would be the 10th Mountain Division knives made by Ulster. The question about the tang stamp on other knives does make me curious though.

[Frank Trzaska]

JL,
That is one beauty of a USAAC knife.
The MADE IN USA is a very well used marking on WW II era knives. Used by Camillus, Ulster and Imperial and the joint billing name Kingston. A common issue as they all worked together during the war and were all owned by Albert Baer at some point. In any case it is what it is and it is a beauty. Nilo's collection was pieced out over the years and it is no surprise that he owned many examples of other factory items, the competed and studied as well as worked with each other, it is a small world.

This style knife was made in this configuration by Camillus, Utica, Pal, Ulster and Imperial. I have seen Camillus knives in this pattern with jigged rosewood when the bone was hard to come by in the war years. A presently under valued military knife and certainly under appreciated by most collectors in favor of the bigger and better known models.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

As for the MADE IN USA tang stamping, the factories were a frugal bunch, never seemed to throw anything away. Using these blades in later years on contract made items was standard fare. Again, Sears had a connection to the same fellow who put the factories together, Albert Baer.

All the best
Frank Trzaska

[jlholdings]

Thanks a lot Frank. It is always appreciated when one of the experts lends his knowledge to the topic. Do you have any idea as to how many were produced with this stamp?

[Frank Trzaska]

No sorry to say I have not seen anything that puts a number on knives by tang stamping. Total of all manufacturers is 1,400,217 purchased by the government during WW II era.