Picked this up today...........

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:21 pm

Scabbard says M8A1 PWH.Bayonet is unmarked and has the appearance of an M1 bayonet but shorter.Any idea what I have here? I did some searching here and on various links but couldn't come up with anything.I'm not really into military stuff and my ignorance shows it.Any help would be greatly appreciated.

0078 · Post by **0078** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:27 pm

Look at the metal plate, if you where looking down the blade. It should be marked there.

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:39 pm

0078 wrote:Look at the metal plate, if you where looking down the blade. It should be marked there.

If by the metal plate you mean the crossguard there is nothing stamped on either side of it or on the edges for that matter.I just pulled the grips off and they were embossed with a circular logo that looks like th letters,"C" and,"P" joined together with a number underneath that(a 4 on one and a 12 on the other).
On the rear of the scabbard there looks to be remnants of a sticker that had the number 011 on it(same as what is painted on the front).
I'm just curious as to who made it and about when it was made;I'm not looking to sell it.

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:53 pm

U.S. M-1 Garand bayonet. It's been shortened, most likely to fit that sheath.

The USM8A1 scabbard is for a M6 M-14 bayonet.

0078 · Post by **0078** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:21 pm

Jerry what year are they? Sorry I'm no help at all with bayonets I have 3 of them and that's where mine are stamped.

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:30 am

Sorry. I don't know anything about them.

Got this out of Wikipedia.

"The M1 Bayonet was designed to be used with the .30 caliber M1 Garand. The blade is 10 inches (25.4cm) long, and the handle is 4 inches (10.1cm) long. Before 1943, the M1 Garand and all variants of the M1903 Springfield rifle were using the M1905 and later M1942 bayonets. In 1943, the U.S. Army decided to shorten the bayonet design. Many of the M1905/M1942s as possible were recalled, had their blades cut down to 10 inches, and were reissued.

The shortened M1905 bayonets were re-designated as M1905E1. New-production 10-inch bayonets were designated as M1 bayonets.

The shortened bayonets functioned well in the European theater, where in the rare bayonet-actions of the time they were matched up against the 9¾ inch long blade of the German S84/98 III bayonet fitted on the Karabiner 98k rifle. However, in the Pacific theater, the much longer Japanese Type 30 sword bayonet on the already very long Arisaka rifle caused many American troops to retain the longer, unmodified M1905 bayonet."

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:23 am

jerryd6818 wrote:U.S. M-1 Garand bayonet. It's been shortened, most likely to fit that sheath.

The USM8A1 scabbard is for a M6 M-14 bayonet.

Jerry:
At first I thought it was just a shortened M1 bayonet but the more I look at the point,the more I think that is the way it left the factory.It still has virtually all of it's original finish(Parkerized I think or maybe black passivate);even so far as the original grind marks on the blade.
Here are some closeups of the point on either side and from two angles.See what you think.

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:39 am

"Many of the M1905/M1942s as possible were recalled, had their blades cut down to 10 inches, and were reissued.

The shortened M1905 bayonets were re-designated as M1905E1. New-production 10-inch bayonets were designated as M1 bayonets."

I think you may be correct but not for that reason. If it had been shortened at the factory and reissued, they would have recoated it before moving it back into the supply system. The thing that makes me think it's one of the later ones (M1 Bayonet) that was made that way is the swedge.

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:50 am

Here's some stuff I found that may help. The second picture compares one that has been shortened (middle) to one that was made that way (top).

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:04 am

What is puzzling to me is that the factory-shortened ones had a 10 inch blade whereas this one is just slightly over 6 inches. I thought I had read somewhere that some bayonets were cut down and used as side knives and this one fits that M8A1 scabbard perfectly.

jerryd6818 · Post by **jerryd6818** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:25 am

It's been 51 years since I carried an M-1 and then only for a month so I don't remember anything about the bayonet. I'm just showing my a** and embarrassing myself here so I'm going to shut up now.

gew8805 · Post by **gew8805** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:00 pm

A large number of these bayonets with shortened 6 inch blades were imported from Korea (where they were modified) 20 or so years ago. They used to be quite common and sold for under $10 with scabbard included at that time. Many, if not most, have been broken up for the parts - grips and locking catches and scabbards, so they are now fairly uncommon.

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:30 pm

gew8805 wrote:A large number of these bayonets with shortened 6 inch blades were imported from Korea (where they were modified) 20 or so years ago. They used to be quite common and sold for under $10 with scabbard included at that time. Many, if not most, have been broken up for the parts - grips and locking catches and scabbards, so they are now fairly uncommon.

Thank you so much for the information.Were these blades actually made in Korea or were they made in the USA and shipped there? I was curious because there is no marking of any kind anywhere on the knife;other than the markings on the inside of the scales.The fuller of the blade is also unmachined but rather a rough cast(or forging)unlike most bayonets I've seen which feature a machined groove.Also the crossguard on the blade side is a rough casting as well.It has never had a edge put on it and the overall finish of the blade is quite rough.The only time I've seen a finish like that on a bayonet was an M6(I think)blade that I bought sans handle.It looked to be a factory reject but was only $3 so I picked it up and made some handles for it;still leaving the blade in it's crude state.

gew8805 · Post by **gew8805** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:48 pm

As to where they were made, I believe that they are simply modified M1 Garand bayonets but the lack of a maker's name is a problem there, they were stamped quite deeply, but they have been heavily ground (explains the rough surface) so that may explain the lack of markings. The M8 and M8A1 scabbards were made to accept the thinner blade of the M3 fighting knife, the M4 bayonet for the M1 Carbine and later US bayonets with the same blade. Thinning the blade was likely done to allow them to fit the scabbard and to loose "excess" weight.

knife7knut · Post by **knife7knut** » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:38 pm

gew8805 wrote:As to where they were made, I believe that they are simply modified M1 Garand bayonets but the lack of a maker's name is a problem there, they were stamped quite deeply, but they have been heavily ground (explains the rough surface) so that may explain the lack of markings. The M8 and M8A1 scabbards were made to accept the thinner blade of the M3 fighting knife, the M4 bayonet for the M1 Carbine and later US bayonets with the same blade. Thinning the blade was likely done to allow them to fit the scabbard and to loose "excess" weight.

Now I REALLY confused. I examined the blade where it joins the crossguard and it is slightly thinner but I would estimate no more than .006 to .010". I know that most tang stamps are MUCH deeper than that so as far as I can determine this was the way the knife was originally made.Here are some closeups of the areas in question.

gew8805 · Post by **gew8805** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Excellent quality photographs. The depth of the grinding you show is more than enough to remove any markings stamped into the ricasso. Also enough to allow the formerly thicker blade to fit the M8A1 scabbard.