Ulster knife co ?

[Phin Spencer]

Hello all. Can any one tell me the difference between Ulster over knife co over USA and
Ulster over knife co over NY? I know they were made in the same time period, but why
is 1 USA and the other NY?
Thanks in advance
Phin

[knifetime]

The company changed hands in 1941 that may be when the change came about but I am not sure. Can we see pics of the 2 knives.

[Phin Spencer]

Hi All.......... Don't have time to take pictures now, the only 1's I have are over NY, but I am sure
both stamps were used before 1941. I will be back Sunday, off to the ranch in the desert, no
internet no phone service there
thanks
Phin

[knifetime]

I know most US knife company's started to use the USA stamp when Canada started a tariff on cutlery but I would have to look in the books for the date. It was around the time your knives where made I'm sure. That could be our answer.

[0078]

This might help you out.

[0078]

Here's another one I found on aapk

[Shearer]

All my knives are Ulster over USA.The only difference is some have the model stamped on the back of the blade. I would say the change from stamping the number from the back of the blade to the front in about 1973 when Shrade did the same thing.This is not listed anywhere as they did noy keep good records so it's anyone guest.
Could you post apicture withthe Ulster over NY please.
Grant

Schrade put Schrade NY USA for a couple of years1973-1975 ??

[0078]

I think this is the stamp you are asking for. Some of the older ones had numbers on the blade, I could never figure there numbering system out.

[Phin Spencer]

I hope the photos turn up! The first is a hobo stamped Ulster over knife co over NY, and the second should
be a horseman which has Ulster over knife co over USA on the cap lifter and on the master blade has Ulster
over knife co over NY..... please forgive me if this does not work. Born 20 years to late!
Thanks
Phin

[Phin Spencer]

Hi All the pictures got a little messed up..... as I said the first 1 should be a Hobo the second
would be a horseman, the master blade on the horseman has the NY stamp and the cap lifter
has USA on it. I know both stamps were used before 1941, but I can not find anything about
the NY stamp.
Thanks
Phin

[Phin Spencer]

Hi again... the top picture is a horseman, the middle pict is the hobo, and the last is
the horseman again.
Sorry for the mix up....
Phin

[Phin Spencer]

1 last try to show the NY stamp
thanks
Phin

[orvet]

Hey Phin,
You coming to the Oregon show in April?

All your Ulster tang stamps are pre 1941. Notice that they have the serifs on the letters.
The stamps after 1941 are sans serif: without serif.

Here is a post 1941 sans serif stamp:

See the difference?


Generally speaking the serif lettering is earlier in most companies, at least here in the USA.
The sans serif lettering, which looks like an Arial font on your PC, is normally the newer type.

[Phin Spencer]

Thanks Dale! The info is great, but I still don't know why they used the NY and the USA stamp.
The horseman has a cap lifter with USA and a master blade with NY, probably made in 1940
or close to the end using up parts. Both well made strong knives!
Yes I will be at the knife show, already made reservations!
Thanks again
Phin

[orvet]

I don't know the reason for the NY & the USA stamps, just variety I guess.

I am glad you will be at the show, will you have a table this year?
See you in April!

[mickeyevans]

I got this one recently and was told it was made by Schrade
looks like iron bolsters and liners
which makes me think it was made during the war years, probably after the Divine family sold to the Albert Baer company?

[Shearer]

I got this one recently and was told it was made by Schrade
looks like iron bolsters and liners
which makes me think it was made during the war years, probably after the Divine family sold to the Albert Baer company?

If you cannot see any pins through the bolster it was made after 1961-62.
Pins and Steel liners I would say WW2.
Grant

[mickeyevans]

hi Grant, I took out my loupe, and I can not find pins in the bolsters
the bolsters, springs, liners and blades look like the same kind of metal, steel or Iron, I thought the bolsters and liners were iron because I thought it was a WW II knife and I know they stopped using brass and NS, or white brass during the war
I know the handles are real peach seed bone
Are the bolsters part of the side scales? there must be end pins going through the scales and blades? what is holding the bolsters on?
never saw a knife that was not a shell without end pins through the bolsters, but maybe I need to look closer, sometimes they are hard to see but I always did find them when I looked with a loupe. center pin go's through everything, end pins go through cap end spring and all the scales and the blades and bolsters, at least in diagram I am looking at.
I am looking and some places the bolster looks separate from the side scale and other areas it looks like they are one, what the heck is holding the bolsters on? I better do more research, but some help soon will be appreciated

[Shearer]

hi Grant, I took out my loupe, and I can not find pins in the bolsters
the bolsters, springs, liners and blades look like the same kind of metal, steel or Iron, I thought the bolsters and liners were iron because I thought it was a WW II knife and I know they stopped using brass and NS, or white brass during the war
I know the handles are real peach seed bone
Are the bolsters part of the side scales? there must be end pins going through the scales and blades? what is holding the bolsters on?
never saw a knife that was not a shell without end pins through the bolsters, but maybe I need to look closer, sometimes they are hard to see but I always did find them when I looked with a loupe. center pin go's through everything, end pins go through cap end spring and all the scales and the blades and bolsters, at least in diagram I am looking at.
I am looking and some places the bolster looks separate from the side scale and other areas it looks like they are one, what the heck is holding the bolsters on? I better do more research, but some help soon will be appreciated

Schrade and ulster used the swindon System after 1961.The bolster and lining locks onto the pin . here a reference for you.
http://www.google.com.au/patents/US2977678 (just click on the pictures )

[tjmurphy]

Hey Mickey, that Ulster you are showing is definately WWII or before. The pins are there, you just can't see them. The ULSTER/KNIFE/CO. stamp is a dead give-away. K-nice K-nife and I love the boney handles

[mickeyevans]

it will take awhile to digest that Grant
I have heard about the Swindon system, some repairers say they can not take them apart and put them back together
this may be my first Swindon Knife but I will just keep looking more closely at the bolsters on Schrade and Ulster knives from after 1960
thanks for the link that is now in my reference folder
I see a pin built into the inside of the bolster, that go's through a hole in the side scale, which has a key hole that can be put on and locked down to other internal parts of the knife and this can be done with more automation
that's as far as I got before my hair started to hurt.
boy , do I love this hobby and AAPK, glad I got a bunch of 'fair' condition knives of all sorts so I can just handle and study them

[mickeyevans]

hey TJ, I tend to agree about the age
it is such a tight knife, that snaps like a trap and the pins could be so tight and not exactly in the center like I am use to seeing them, and of course it could have been buffed allot in it's life
looks like it was used but not abused, the blades have scratches and the tip is slightly round, but someone loved that knife before me
hope my pictures show what I try to describe, you can see no chips, nicks or blade loss, just some green paint in the jigging. not sure I want to 'clean ' out the jigging too much till I get the right tool for that. tooth pick is too soft and dental pick may be too hard. I used a knife tip very gently.
thanks to all my mentors and new friends

[reddirtknives]

Hey mickey, Have you ever seen a used old timer that had dings all over the bolster sides sometimes almost flattened from the dings and having terrible blade wobble? That's from someone not knowing about the swindon key system and in an effort to tighten up the slack/free play in the blades banging away on a pin that's not there furthering the damage inside the swindon key workings. The reason the guys can't take them apart and put back together is because of the reason why they're taking them apart in the first place, to get rid of the wobble or free play caused by the inner workings of the swindon key system becoming wallard (if that's not a word change it to "worn out" kinda like stripped) out from lots of use or misuse. I've never taken one apart but from what I've heard all you have to do to get one completely apart is remove one pin, the rocker/center pin then turn the handles in opposite directions to separate all of the components. I may not have understood this correctly but I know that I'm not far off. You can't easily fix the wear done to the parts so a repairman ends up putting it back together like a traditional pocketknife using pins through the bolsters and blades. At least I think that's how that goes

[reddirtknives]

Oh yeah, I love that old knife by the way

[orvet]

Mickey,
I agree with TJ, definitely made before Ulster bought out Schrade.
Peach seed bone war pretty well gone from Schrade's regular production knives by 1962 when they started using the Swinden system.
The reason you can't see the pins is they are well fitted at the factory and the patina covers them very well, and I would bet the pin and bolsters are made of the same steel, which makes them harder to spot as well.

The serif letters on the tang stamp tells me it is pre-Schrade. Ulster bought Schrade at the end of WW II, about 1946. Schrade did make Ulsters later on, but I don’t know of any with bone handles that Schrade except possibly a special edition, but I don’t even recall seeing any of those.
You got a beauty there!