Definition of Vintage?

[rexstubbins]

OK. I (like probably most of us) buy & sell on Ebay. I always try to be honest and describe the items I list accurately. I have used the word "vintage" in both the title & description on items that I believe are vintage. I consider this to be pre 1970 because ebay has a distinction between pre 1970 & post 1970. I have come across a listing where this guy has listed a 2002 Case knife as vintage. He also keyword stuffed the title as such: "Vintage 2002 Case 6220 Peanut knife camp fish Lot of Old Rare Knives Listed."

This guy seems to do this to most of his knife listings. Questions are:

1) What year is considered vintage?
2) Should this guy be reported?

[rexstubbins]

And another thing...

He never shows the stamp. Why would you not show the stamp and conversely why would you not ask him to show the stamp?

Off on a rant. Sorry.

[Dragunski]

It could be that his camera's not good enough - but then he should get a new one.

My definition of "vintage" is pre-1945. But it's not Ebay's. Maybe we should use "antique" for pre-1945, and "vintage" for 1945-1970. Vintage seems to have a different meaning depending on whether it's applied to knives, cars, clothing or wines.

I usually avoid using the word in Ebay listings.

[rexstubbins]

It could be that his camera's not good enough - but then he should get a new one.

My definition of "vintage" is pre-1945. But it's not Ebay's. Maybe we should use "antique" for pre-1945, and "vintage" for 1945-1970. Vintage seems to have a different meaning depending on whether it's applied to knives, cars, clothing or wines.

I usually avoid using the word in Ebay listings.

I think that I might do the same. The words vintage and antique are vague. Actually most words are vague. Even the word vague is vague.

[Quick Steel]

Rex: Maybe the following will help.

Personally, and this is just my preference, I would use 1980 as the stop on vintage. That takes us past the 30 year mark.

How old is vintage?

People normally reckon anything older than 25-30 years old. Vintage now probably dates back 1980's and before. Anything 1920s-1980s is usually classed as 'vintage', 1920s or before is referred to as 'antique'. Read More »
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_old_is_vintage

Clearly someone trying to sell a knife produced in this century is flaky.

[rexstubbins]

I guess it's all subjective and based on your position in life. However my point is the guy on ebay is really taking some liberties with this word, the keyword stuffing, shady practice, and all around butholeness. Just my opinion.

[reddirtknives]

I crack up at the people who start out a title "A Brand New Vintage _ _ __ _ _ yada yada Clearly lost. I will sometimes use vintage as 1980 and back and I might use antique when 50 years and older just to attract people who have those words in their searches... Everything is vintage or of it's particular vintage but not everything is antique... For the most part I adhere to ebays 1970 and back for vintage but 10 years ago was the ebay guideline pre 1960 ? Have you realized that some of the music you grew up with is now the music that they play on the moldy oldie station? Spooky huh?

[TripleF]

Right on the money QuickSteel.

Most people have no idea the word antique refers to 100 years old!

[RobesonsRme.com]

I'm going to rely strictly on memory here.

"Vintage" is defined as "Indicative and/or consistent of the time in which it was manufactured" or words to that effect.

Maybe knife collectors have taken the word to different usages.

But, applying that definition, a modern SpyderCo knife is vintage, as are the SOG folders, Ken Onions, etc.

I don't believe the word "vintage" should be used to denote age or collectibility.

Charlie Noyes

[reddirtknives]

Word games is what a lot of ebay sellers are playing and it is up to the buyer to decipher the truth if any. Mix that with trick photography and lack of important details with the Ask questions before bidding clause and is there any wonder why some people spend 40 hours a week shopping on ebay? Antique is a modern buzz word for old and lost it's true meaning long ago like all words eventually do. It is also used loosely to mean old just like someone might say " Hey that's a cool knife" where the word cool was never intended to describe the actual temperature of the knife. At this point old is in the eyes of the beholder. Old in the mind of a boy turned 16, a woman who is 90 and God will be looked at differently by all three. Since ebay doesn't understand the meaning of vintage and most people don't know antique to mean over 100 years old or they do not use the word that way or look at it that way, Does it really matter? This all seems to point to "Read the knife" as being the first rule. It's just too bad you can't read very far into trick photography or poor quality photography. Educating yourself in what you are buying is always wise and with such a high percentage of ebay sellers being ignorant in what they are selling and the high percentage of ebay sellers who are con-artists,thieves and liars education is a MUST.

Back to the topic ~ Definition of vintage? I think Mr. Noyes clearly defined The word.

Any guesses as to the percentage of educated honest ebay sellers that are out there who specialize in certain items?
My guess is 2%

[Rookie]

It's all about getting peoples searches to have your knife pop up. A lot of sellers write "Vintage Case XX Tested Antique Old Rare Mint Knife Trapper Muskrat Congress Stag" for a description, and the knife is a pearl handled Schatt & Morgan from 2005. I guess these people's theory is that the more times their knife shows up, the better chance on getting more bidders.

But like it has been said, a real buyer that knows what he wants is going to read the knife anyways, so the false headline isn't really fooling anyone, it's just getting their item to show up more often than it would otherwise.

[Shearer]

If you forget about knives for a second and apply the word vintage to wine it could be made this year.
"Vintage" is a word used to make a knife sound old and worthy of the price they are trying to seek.
The seller is trying to enhance the knife by using words to get the best price.
The best sellers are the ones that show lots of picture and tell you about knife and if it has any defects.It saves a lot of problems later.

[1967redrider]

. . . The best sellers are the ones that show lots of picture and tell you about knife and if it has any defects.It saves a lot of problems later.

So true, so true. I figure deceitful eBay sellers are really just causing more headaches for themselves by not being honest. We knife collectors are a critical lot!

[knife7knut]

The best sellers are the ones that show lots of picture and tell you about knife and if it has any defects.It saves a lot of problems later.

This not only applies to knife dealers but in just about any other field you'd care to name.A case in point:
I have a good friend who specializes in buying and selling,"vintage" automobiles.He makes a fair profit;sometimes small and sometimes bigger.He only buys vehicles that in his opinion are either very good or can be easily made very good.He doesn't scrimp on repairs and does most of his own work.
When he advertises a vehicle for sale he will supply a video taken by him or his wife(she runs a video transfer business)that shows in detail not only the good points but things he feels could be improved.His prices can be a bit high at times but he will stand behind his vehicles.In all the years I have known him I have seen only one instance where his customer wasn't satisfied(and I doubt ANYONE could have satisfied this idiot)and he refunded his money. His reputation as a fair and square dealer is known far and wide.
When I purchased my 1955 Safari back in 1994 I had a similar experience with the seller.He described in detail what the car had and what it needed and was very upfront about it.We reached an agreement that was amicable to both of us and he delivered the car two weeks later(trailered over 100 miles one way in a snowstorm in February.Nearly 20 years and about 175,000 miles later I'm still driving it. I'd buy another car from this guy in a heartbeat.