Here is the new Benchmade 10100. Looking at it through the dealer's showcase, I noted the blade was much longer than the handle it was to be folded into. Happy to demonstrate this state of the art knife, the dealer brought it out, pushed the release, and as he folded the blade in, a Marble's type blade protector opened up, neatly making the inch of so of sharp steel not held within the handle safe for carrying. Yawn, another old idea, new again, after one hundrred years.
Kinda a cheap feeling knife, although I do know the difference between lightweight and inexpensive. Cheap when comparing it to some other Benchmades, at $80. Has a pocket clip on it, but I suspect serious damage could be done to oneself when sitting down with that thing pocketed. Does have a nylon sheath included.
I am sure the steel is just fine, a-ok. Most Benchmade's are of fine steel.
Of course the knife has PROTOTYPE proudly etched on the blade. Funny word, as used in cutlery, that 'prototype' Supposed to inspire the buyer to make an investment in something rare and valuable. Well, not too rare... Easy to find on ebay, and every online shop seems to have a healthy stock of prototypes. The meaning has changed so over the years. I think it now means "first production run of as many we can make for the suckers before they wise up".
Not a bad knife I am sure. Innovative and clever? Sure, it was when Mr. Marbles (or perhaps some unknown German or British knifemaker before him) came up with the idea.
What does prototype mean to you guys??
Phil
what's old is new again and a pet peeve
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Gr8Scout
what's old is new again and a pet peeve
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justold52
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What does prototype mean to you guys??
Well I am going to agree with you on this on.
To me It means buy me QUICK and never use me.
Protect me from mother nature so I stay good looking for a long time and place me in a safe place. Do not use me or sharpen me. Keep all the papers, sheath and box with me. If you like me so much buy two or three. We all have to think of our grand-kids too. Some day I may reward you for this and some other collector will pay you lots more for me (cuz I am a prototype). You may have to give me to a son or daughter before this will happen. Just think of it after you are gone some one will wish his dad had done this.
Is this one of the reasons that Sog & Randall Made Knives don't do this?
They just make good knives.
Well you asked and I gave you my thoughts...
Well I am going to agree with you on this on.
To me It means buy me QUICK and never use me.
Protect me from mother nature so I stay good looking for a long time and place me in a safe place. Do not use me or sharpen me. Keep all the papers, sheath and box with me. If you like me so much buy two or three. We all have to think of our grand-kids too. Some day I may reward you for this and some other collector will pay you lots more for me (cuz I am a prototype). You may have to give me to a son or daughter before this will happen. Just think of it after you are gone some one will wish his dad had done this.
Is this one of the reasons that Sog & Randall Made Knives don't do this?
They just make good knives.
Well you asked and I gave you my thoughts...
A sign In a Chinese Pet Store: 'Buy one dog, get one flea.'
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Hukk
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PROTOTYPE, A word that has been used with judacious liberty in the cutlery world.
1. Original used as model.
something having the essential features of a subsequent type, and on which later forms are modeled.
2. A standard example.
a standard example of a particular kind, class, or group
3. Full size functional model
A first full-size functional model to be manufactured, for example, of a car or a machine, A prototype of the new convertible will be on display at the Motor Show.
UNITED STATES (ENGLISH) THESAURUS:
Example
Sample
Model
Trial Product
First of it's kind
Archetype
The term prototype is highly over used by many and I'll use Bulldog Brand for my examples and opinions since I am familiar wth them. The following is my opinions regarding the vastly over used word, Prototype which come to mean, "sell it for more money".
IN MY OPINION, most prototypes are merely a production knife with fancier handles and the word Prototype engraved on the backside of the master blade.
Examples from Pocket Knife Traders Guide vol. 8
1995 Bulldog 3 3/4 inch square bolster stockman. BKC 945 - BKC 952 800 PRODUCTION KNIVES. BKC 953 165 PROTOTYPES. This means 1 of every 6 knives was a prototype. That's about 16%!
BKC 578-A 3 1/2 inch SS Lockback Canoe 200 prototypes, NO PRODUCTION
BKC 578-B 4 1/2 inch SS Lockback Canoe Genuine Pearl, AND 30 DIFFERENT PROTOTYPES, varying from 2 to 9 pieces.
BKC 578-C 3 1/2 2 Blade Canoe 5 pieces of 33 different handle materials. 165 PROTO'S and no mention of production models.
Well, that makes 445 PROTO'S (APPROX. REAL NUMBER IS UNKNOWN).
AND A PEARL PRODUCTION KNIFE for these 3 canoes.
In 2005 and 2006 there was 10 Prototypes with 10 exotic handles for the production runs. Somewhere around 1 of 10 was a prototype ~10%.
In 2007 they went to 20 PROTOTYPE knives for each handle material, and I do not know how many different handles.
Regardless of that, having 100 or so prototype knives that are only difference is a fancy handle and the word Prototype engraved on the back does not make a prototype.
As far as Bulldog goes, I have many that I regard as fancy production (new word for prototype). I also have many that are 1 of a kind and have obvious differences from the production runs. I also have many that never made it to production.
In my opinion, "prototype" is being used as a marketing tool which has come to mean, upgraded production. In the cutlery arena, "prototype" has lost it's true meaning.
1. Original used as model.
something having the essential features of a subsequent type, and on which later forms are modeled.
2. A standard example.
a standard example of a particular kind, class, or group
3. Full size functional model
A first full-size functional model to be manufactured, for example, of a car or a machine, A prototype of the new convertible will be on display at the Motor Show.
UNITED STATES (ENGLISH) THESAURUS:
Example
Sample
Model
Trial Product
First of it's kind
Archetype
The term prototype is highly over used by many and I'll use Bulldog Brand for my examples and opinions since I am familiar wth them. The following is my opinions regarding the vastly over used word, Prototype which come to mean, "sell it for more money".
IN MY OPINION, most prototypes are merely a production knife with fancier handles and the word Prototype engraved on the backside of the master blade.
Examples from Pocket Knife Traders Guide vol. 8
1995 Bulldog 3 3/4 inch square bolster stockman. BKC 945 - BKC 952 800 PRODUCTION KNIVES. BKC 953 165 PROTOTYPES. This means 1 of every 6 knives was a prototype. That's about 16%!
BKC 578-A 3 1/2 inch SS Lockback Canoe 200 prototypes, NO PRODUCTION
BKC 578-B 4 1/2 inch SS Lockback Canoe Genuine Pearl, AND 30 DIFFERENT PROTOTYPES, varying from 2 to 9 pieces.
BKC 578-C 3 1/2 2 Blade Canoe 5 pieces of 33 different handle materials. 165 PROTO'S and no mention of production models.
Well, that makes 445 PROTO'S (APPROX. REAL NUMBER IS UNKNOWN).
AND A PEARL PRODUCTION KNIFE for these 3 canoes.
In 2005 and 2006 there was 10 Prototypes with 10 exotic handles for the production runs. Somewhere around 1 of 10 was a prototype ~10%.
In 2007 they went to 20 PROTOTYPE knives for each handle material, and I do not know how many different handles.
Regardless of that, having 100 or so prototype knives that are only difference is a fancy handle and the word Prototype engraved on the back does not make a prototype.
As far as Bulldog goes, I have many that I regard as fancy production (new word for prototype). I also have many that are 1 of a kind and have obvious differences from the production runs. I also have many that never made it to production.
In my opinion, "prototype" is being used as a marketing tool which has come to mean, upgraded production. In the cutlery arena, "prototype" has lost it's true meaning.
Hukk
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MITCH RAPP
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orvet
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China or Taiwan?MITCH RAPP wrote:Correct me if I am wrong but I think that is one of the new "MADE IN
CHINA " BENCHMADES. That may explain the cheap feeling you
experienced while holding and looking at the knife.
I know they have some models made in Taiwan but I have not seen any (at this point in time) that were made in China.
Dale
Dale
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“Evil is Powerless If The Good are Unafraid.” – Ronald Reagan
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sunburst
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I agree that today's prototyping market hype has really gotten out of control. If it's not Bulldog (A brand I love) or Case Classic screaming out at every Ebay add that this is a prototype and ultra uber rare it's someone elses brand. This in my own personal feelings as a collector has jaded me when I see the word prototype and almost immediately wonder what kind of bedevilment is behind the sales add.. 
Even worse is there really are prototype's out there in the knife world and it almost assuredly has tarnished the outlook on these knives just by association of being labeled a prototype.
Here is a Harness Jack prototype that was never made into true production, only modeled after as Hukk described in one of his definitions, this knife was;
Something having the essential features of a subsequent type, and on which later forms are modeled. A true "One of a Kind"
Even worse is there really are prototype's out there in the knife world and it almost assuredly has tarnished the outlook on these knives just by association of being labeled a prototype.
Here is a Harness Jack prototype that was never made into true production, only modeled after as Hukk described in one of his definitions, this knife was;
Something having the essential features of a subsequent type, and on which later forms are modeled. A true "One of a Kind"
“The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways”
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knife-nut
- Bronze Tier
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whats old is new again
Sunburst: That is about the nicest stag I've seen in a long time. I'm drooling all over myself,just looking at your knife. AWESOME!
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Hukk
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Hey Ralph, I dig that stag HJ. 
That's a great knife.
I collect Bulldog knives so I will often use them as an example just because I know a little bit about them.
I have done some reading lately, more than usual and have come accross a memory jogger. Jim Parker wrote in his books that the Japanese made dozens of prototypes for many of his knives when he was in business as Parker, Parker Eagle etc. It seems as if he got the practice of lots of prototypes while doing business there, in Japan.
It seems as if that practice has continued with Bulldog. AND let's face it, we all like having prototypes.
But it's my opinion that there are just to many prototypes. Instead of calling them prototypes, the now 20 abalone, 20 tiger coral, and the other 20 of each exotic, should possibly be called Exotic Edition or premium Bulldogs, something to modernize the Bulldog name. Also price them accordingly if they are an exotic edition and use 440C in place of Surgical Instrument Steel, no one knows what that is anyway. The knife collectors of today are becoming more savy about materials and metals used in making knives. Look at Canal Street Cutlery and GEC and ask why have they been so successful?
In short, they gave knowledgable knife collectors what they have been asking for. That market has been there for quite some time. I'd like to see an exotic line of Bulldog Brand as well as for many other companies.
Then make a dozen of this, 2 or 3 of another. Go to almost any industry besides cutlery and prototypes are actually on the ugly side, in many cases, a bunch of parts and hanging wires.
I'm not suggesting that they make ugly knives, but I would like to see real prototypes, not a production knife thats just been dressed up.
That's a great knife.I collect Bulldog knives so I will often use them as an example just because I know a little bit about them.
I have done some reading lately, more than usual and have come accross a memory jogger. Jim Parker wrote in his books that the Japanese made dozens of prototypes for many of his knives when he was in business as Parker, Parker Eagle etc. It seems as if he got the practice of lots of prototypes while doing business there, in Japan.
It seems as if that practice has continued with Bulldog. AND let's face it, we all like having prototypes.
But it's my opinion that there are just to many prototypes. Instead of calling them prototypes, the now 20 abalone, 20 tiger coral, and the other 20 of each exotic, should possibly be called Exotic Edition or premium Bulldogs, something to modernize the Bulldog name. Also price them accordingly if they are an exotic edition and use 440C in place of Surgical Instrument Steel, no one knows what that is anyway. The knife collectors of today are becoming more savy about materials and metals used in making knives. Look at Canal Street Cutlery and GEC and ask why have they been so successful?
In short, they gave knowledgable knife collectors what they have been asking for. That market has been there for quite some time. I'd like to see an exotic line of Bulldog Brand as well as for many other companies.
Then make a dozen of this, 2 or 3 of another. Go to almost any industry besides cutlery and prototypes are actually on the ugly side, in many cases, a bunch of parts and hanging wires.
I'm not suggesting that they make ugly knives, but I would like to see real prototypes, not a production knife thats just been dressed up.
Hukk
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olderdogs1
- Posts: 2538
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prototypes
This is my feeling on prototypes. They are only valuable to me if I know the history of the pattern. So don't try to sell me a new prototype. I have several prototypes that I value. These are ones that were used in one of the older magazines, such as the ones Hukk posted along with the photgrapic proof of same. I have several like this that I value fairly highly. THe other prototypes that I value are the ones that have the old blades that have been around for awhile. I have several 1st generation Bulldog prototypes that I really like. These are handles that were never put into regular production.
I don't really have enough knowledge on the other brands to be informative, however I like some others of you have seen a lot of newer knives referred to as prototypes. To me these may have great value at a later date but the prototype designation at this time does little to raise my interest.
I think the market bears out what I have stated. People with great sales pitches will still be flaunting their wares. But I feel that the knowledgable buyer will pick his spots.
Tom
I don't really have enough knowledge on the other brands to be informative, however I like some others of you have seen a lot of newer knives referred to as prototypes. To me these may have great value at a later date but the prototype designation at this time does little to raise my interest.
I think the market bears out what I have stated. People with great sales pitches will still be flaunting their wares. But I feel that the knowledgable buyer will pick his spots.
Tom
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sunburst
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Thank you knife-nut, for the great compliment 
Hukk,
The one thing I would like to see is the word prototype being used to the true definition. I don't care how you describe it 10 knives do not define a prototype. So when someone tells me that this is a 1 of 10 prototype in this handle with 10 more handle types in another 1 of 10 they are full of it. You can call this a low number series but calling it a prototype is just testifying that you have no respect for the intelligence of the knife collecting community.
Ok, I ranted enough..Carry on... ::blah::
By the way if you look at the punch on the HJ it is too short for a production knife, defining one more example of what a prototype knife really is..An example of what may come down the line but were still working on it.. ..
Sunburst
Hukk,
The one thing I would like to see is the word prototype being used to the true definition. I don't care how you describe it 10 knives do not define a prototype. So when someone tells me that this is a 1 of 10 prototype in this handle with 10 more handle types in another 1 of 10 they are full of it. You can call this a low number series but calling it a prototype is just testifying that you have no respect for the intelligence of the knife collecting community.
Ok, I ranted enough..Carry on... ::blah::
By the way if you look at the punch on the HJ it is too short for a production knife, defining one more example of what a prototype knife really is..An example of what may come down the line but were still working on it..
..Sunburst
“The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways”
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MITCH RAPP
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orvet wrote:China or Taiwan?MITCH RAPP wrote:
CHINA " BENCHMADES. That may explain the cheap feeling you
experienced while holding and looking at the knife.
I know they have some models made in Taiwan but I have not seen any (at this point in time) that were made in China.
Dale
I know the Benchmade Vex has China stamped right on the tang because I looked at it in a knife shop. I think all the 2007 Benchmade "RED CLASS" knives are now made in Mainland China!- Attachments
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sunburst
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Sorry guys for hijacking your topic with my ranting...MITCH RAPP wrote:orvet wrote:China or Taiwan?MITCH RAPP wrote:
CHINA " BENCHMADES. That may explain the cheap feeling you
experienced while holding and looking at the knife.
I know they have some models made in Taiwan but I have not seen any (at this point in time) that were made in China.
Dale
“The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways”
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Hukk
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sunburst wrote:
The one thing I would like to see is the word prototype being used to the true definition. I don't care how you describe it 10 knives do not define a prototype. So when someone tells me that this is a 1 of 10 prototype in this handle with 10 more handle types in another 1 of 10 they are full of it. You can call this a low number series but calling it a prototype is just testifying that you have no respect for the intelligence of the knife collecting community.
Sunburst
Ooops, hang my head in shame. Yep, you are 100% correct. I must of stared at that page with all those lockback canoes, you know the ones with ~450 protos and 1 pearl knife that may be a production. 
Hukk
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MITCH RAPP
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Gr8Scout
Lots of good responses. Thank u all. I don't know if the 10100 is China made or not, just that my one lasting impression of it-- besides the whole Prototype thing, is cheap, tinny feeling of it in my hand. Of course this Benchmade is not a Rukus, and I have handled those beasties many times, a very solid and nicely made knife. Huge price difference between that and the 10100.
One benefit of a manufacturer designating a knife a Prototype: It becomes, then, in the eyes of the buyer, something too valuable to actually use, hence no warranty work will ever be needed. Something along the lines of the limited editions of 3500 put out so frequently by Case. Does anyone ever use those bone handled beauties???
Be interesting to start a thread here showing real prototypes; One of a kind knives, pre-production.
Phil
One benefit of a manufacturer designating a knife a Prototype: It becomes, then, in the eyes of the buyer, something too valuable to actually use, hence no warranty work will ever be needed. Something along the lines of the limited editions of 3500 put out so frequently by Case. Does anyone ever use those bone handled beauties???
Be interesting to start a thread here showing real prototypes; One of a kind knives, pre-production.
Phil