Chinese quality vs. 1970s Japanese

[keithw]

When I was a kid, "Made in Japan" was a running joke about something being shoddy-made.

After my Dad passed a few years back, we were cleaning out his house and I found the first knife that I bought with "my" money from about 1971. It's a 5" yellow-handled Sabre Japan fish knife. I had carried it in an old tackle box for years, then in my motorcycle/car toolboxes for many more. When I found it again in 2008, I took it home and threw it in a bin on my workbench. I didn't want it in with my "good" knives. I was bored this weekend, so when I came across it, and started looking closer at it, it looks to be pretty decently made.

I cleaned it up a little with Simichrome, and I'll probably buff it some with the dremel at some point, but it came back pretty good. It has good snap, and the backsprings have no gaps at all. I'm going to sharpen it up and see how well the blade holds an edge.

Finally, my point to this ramble is that I think the Chinese-made reputation of today can be compared to the Japanese-made reputation from the 1960s-1970s, and in many cases is undeserved. There is definitely junk being produced in China, but many products being made there is of good quality. Most people who have purchased the higher end Chinese knvies will agree.

When I finish with my knife, I'll post some pics.
Also, I saw this today, and even though it is unrelated to knives, I wanted to share it.

[gino]

Im my opinion - I think most of those later made Japanese knives were made of half decent quality. The average Chinese knife made today is no match for the Japanese knives of yesterday.
JMO

[tjmurphy]

I've got one Rough Rider knife and I can find nothing wrong with it. I think I paid about $6 for with shipping and it is well worth the money, bone handles, great fit and finish, locks up tight and holds an edge. What more could you ask for. I think the real question is, do you want to keep the Chinese employed or our own people?

[keithw]

TJ,

You're right, we should focus more on buying our own products.
I wasn't trying to start any type of political / economic thread.
I was just comparing the junk reputation of old Japanese products to newer Chinese products.

BTW, I was wondering, how long will it be before eBay sellers start using the "Rare" and "Vintage" description on their Chinese knives?
After all we've been importing them for over 10 years now.

[tjmurphy]

TJ,

You're right, we should focus more on buying our own products.
I wasn't trying to start any type of political / economic thread.
I was just comparing the junk reputation of old Japanese products to newer Chinese products.

BTW, I was wondering, how long will it be before eBay sellers start using the "Rare" and "Vintage" description on their Chinese knives?After all we've been importing them for over 10 years now.

If you look hard enough you'll probably find some now.

[jerryd6818]

Every time the words 'Chinese (or China)' and 'knife' are put together in a sentence on this forum, the feathers start flying and the dust nearly blocks out the sun.

So I'm going to stick to Japanese products from the '50s. Pure junk. Toys and household gadgetry were stamped tin or poorly made plastic crap that were barely worth the small amount of money you paid for them. Tools were made of inferior steel, didn't work well and broke at the drop of a hat. (That's the way I remember it folks so it must have been that way.) Carrying over into the 1960s, all Japanese products were - in the mind of Americans - synonymous with 'cheap' and 'flimsy'. What I remember of Japanese knives was poorly made shell knives with inferior steel blades. Fit and finish were foreign words to the Japanese. The first Hondas, Toyotas, Mazdas and Datsuns were the butt of many jokes. (And yes, I know the cars didn't really show up in numbers until the '70s) The drive train didn't last and they rusted even faster than U.S. made cars. Early Japanese products were a poor copy of American invention and innovation. The '50s were a long time ago and I was young but I don't remember a single Japanese product that garnered respect. I'm sure someone will pop up with something but I can't remember anything.

As we all know now, they improved. Some Japanese knives are finely crafted. They are world leaders in electronics and the automotive industry and their products are no longer poor quality nor inexpensive to buy. Their plan for world domination (maybe that wasn't their plan but what else was WWII about?) didn't work out on the battlefield or in the political arena but it's sure as hell alive and healthy on the economic front.

The next world power in the 21st Century? India.

[Gunsmoke47]

Keith, your picture makes me want to puke.

[chautauqua]

growing up in the 60s i see japan very different than current china made stuff,it was in the most part junk but different from american and europeon made items,they were not stealing copyrighted or trademarks and they where not producing items that would hurt people by poisoning or hurting them for the sake of making money,because they could be held accountable,under there us based govt they could be sued and jailed by international law,china on the other hand international law falls on deaf ears as the govt technically owns the company thats communisiom and the govt isnt likely to shut down a profitable money maker and we also new that the money we spent with japan wasnt being used to build up a giant military,geared up to take on are military we didnt trade with ussr until the wall was torn down and we dont deal with cuba so why do we deal with china

[Miller Bro's]

Pertaining to the original question of quality in Japanese products, knives or otherwise.

I never seen any quality product come out of Japan in the 1970`s, I have been collecting a lot of different stuff over the years and the Japanese stuff is poor quality and workmanship, most of it looks as if you were teaching a child how to make a product, then again maybe children were assembling the stuff coming out of there at that time

[garddogg56]

Amen Miller Bros

[philco]

Some of the cutlery coming out of Japan today is nothing short of fantastic. I've got a couple of tactical type knives made in Seki City, Japan that are as good as any knives I own. I've also got a couple of the old Japan made Sabre knives in my collection from way back when that are nothing to write home about.
I honestly believe the Chinese can make top quality knives if they want to expend the time and cost to do so. Most of what we see coming out of China right now is targeted at a non collector market who just want a cheap knife and have no appreciation for quality. I said most, but not all. If you look around you'll see some excellent knives out there that were made in China. (Spyderco, SOG, A.G.Russell come to mind)
Apparently Case believes the Chinese can make a decent knife as they have just announced a new line that will be made there. It is an evolving industry.

Phil

[jerryd6818]

"Case believes the Chinese can make a decent knife as they have just announced a new line that will be made there."

[Bootclad]

I bought a Smith & Wesson - 4" Stockman, buffalo horn handles - not knowing that it was made in China. When I received it and saw China on the blade I was disapointed. Anyway - when I finally came round to look at it again I had to admit that the finish was very good. The only complaint I can make about it is the springs arn't quite as firm as I'd like (expect) them to be. Can't tell you what its like to use 'cause it hasn't been taken out of the shed yet.
On the other hand I also bought a little two blade Japanese Sabre (mabey 70's) finish was rough. A little #400/#800 ect. grain sand paper and a couple hours later and its passable.

[old timer1990]

I have two rough rider and one chinese schrade and I have my great grandfather japanese saber I carry the rough rider almost daily I don't carry the saber much many because it was my great grandfather and I don't want to lost it but as far as quality the the saber is a really good knife and it has carbon steel blade I think it would be better quality than most of the chinese knives today but I really like my two rough rider the schrade isn't half as good as my rough rider but as far as collecting chinese knives I don't but for carry and not afraid to lose them I like them

[glenn]

Parker japan made is far better than the china stuff i have seen.

[wazu013]

How about Russian sausage vs. Chineese quality
wazu013

[2Sharp]

Though China has earned a reputation for producing cheap junk which is barely usable in some cases, the quality has slowly but surely improved as far as knives are concerned! I have several brand name knives which were produced in China and frankly, was surprised at the quality! One thing I have become a fan of is the Chinese version (8CR13MOV) of Japanese AUS8 stainless steel. I have several Kershaw knives made in China which are sporting blades made out of this steel and they hold a very sharp edge even after heavy use and yet they are not hard to sharpen! They perform much better than the normal 420/420J2 junk (not to be confused with 420HC or 420V which actually perform decently in my experience) which doesn't hold an edge and you can sharpen it all day long and not get much of an edge on it! I also have several CRKT knives which were made in China and thus far they have held up quite well, no complaints! Of course like many knife collectors I prefer knives made here in the good ole USA and I have been willing to pay a little more for the privilege! Nothing like that "Made in the USA" stamp on the blade!

[HiPower]

the parker imported knives starting in the early 80s or late 70s were real decent values & their s.s. alloy outcut almost any american s.s. steel. i do believe china started slow at 1st but when given enough profit & supervision they can produce knives as good as any in the world.[factory] for the dollar price the chinese are number one in the world. since my traditional collection is only made by american compnies , especially gec, i own no chinese knives. however i did wring out a few of the higher priced chinese knives a while back & was very impressed with the quality. i think people buying 1st knives for young people will do better going chinese since first time younger users will damage or lose many first knives. i ca;nt see giving a novice a 80.00 gec folder as a 1st.--HiPower

[garddogg56]

Hi Power;What are the brand names of these high quality chinesse knives?

[HiPower]

the byrds imported by spyderco, the colts imported by taylor or smkw,& rough riders.--HiPower

[ironmage]

the byrds imported by spyderco, the colts imported by taylor or smkw,& rough riders.--HiPower

All grate knives HiPower.Lets add Sog and CRKT to the list to.

[knife7knut]

I guess I'll jump into the fray with my twopence:
A lot has been said about the quality of Japanese products shortly after WWII and into the 1950's.Granted a lot of these items were not on a par with most products made in the USA at the time.....BUT;have you seen the prices of those cheaply made Japanese tin toys lately?
Someone also mentioned that they had never seen any quality item made in Japan in the 1970's.What about Gerber knives?Kershaw? Taylor Seto?Al Mar?
As for the quality of Chinese knives;there are a proliferation of cheap fantasy knives that don't measure up but there are also some that are very good buildwise.The Marbles line of folders seem to be of good quality.I have a lockback that is stamped simply Stainless China that I have had for many years and is loosely patterned on a Buck 110/Gerber FS and is a superb knife.I wish I knew who made it.FWIW it is posted in the Folding Hunter thread in the General Discussion forum.
I think that the Chinese manufacturers(at least some of them)realize what Japan did many years ago;namely that if they produce a good quality product and sell it for a reasonable price they will have a winner on their hands.
Just my opinion folks.

[Toejammer]

I wouldn't put the Chinese quality up against the 70's Japanese stuff just yet,.........but they're heading in the right direction. You have to remember that the outsourced stuff from USA companies are held to higher standards than the home grown China knives. I have CRKT, SOG, Kershaw, and Boker knives, all from China, and so far they've surpassed my expectations. I just snagged my 1st Rough Rider of the bay last night, and we'll see where it fits in this topic.

I think there has to be a distinction made between the farmed out knives and the true Chinese based knives. Much like the Japanese knives in the 70's, the Ka-bar imports (Khyber) were much better quality than, lets say, Fury's. (I think Fury was a Japanese based Co.) I don't know which Cinese Co's are independent knife makers.

One thing to remember is this - the global climate is drastically different than back in the 70's. Japan made a mint off tourism, selling crappy tourist trap knives to us yanks ! China doesn't have that option with all the weapon laws that are in place, and I think this is why you see a higher number of outsourced brands coming from them. It's the only real outlet they have.

After WWII, "made in Japan" was a bad thing to see on a product. Then in the 70's, along came the VCR...... and we forgave them.

[Quick Steel]

My impression of the Chinese imports from AG Russell is excellent.

[novice]

The Chinese will build any quality asked for by the client. It is when the client asks to hit a specific price point that the quality becomes flexible. In the case of any US "manufacturer" or importer, the final quality of the product rests solely upon them and not the Chinese. Spec a cheap knife, get a cheap knife. Spec a quality knife, get a quality knife. Spec a quality knife at a cheap price point, get a cheap knife. Way of the world unfortunately. I don't blame the Chinese for that scenario but the clients who bring that product in. They ultimately own the product spec and what they put into their distribution for resale.

Regarding the Japanese and their quality, there were a few great knives out there. The OMOR pick-lock looks like a Westbury $0.01 knife but the build quality is far beyond that. Both shown are on par with comparable Italian knives of the same era. Horn scales, brass liners, excellent fitting and polish, tight lock-up. The pics do not do them justice.