Camillus WWII and before!

[cato]

got this nice little sword brand. my first !!1!

[orvet]

Now that is a pretty one Greg!!!
Not even much shrinking of the celluloid!

I like it!

[tendots]

Travman Super knice!!!!!!

[tjmurphy]

Trav and Cato, really nice knives. You just can't hardly go wrong with an old Camillus knife, some of the best made

[travman]

Thanks guys
Cato great sword brand knife ..unbelievable
that knife has survived all these years in that condition

Here is a 3-3/8" serpintine jack
Both blades are 4 line stamp
camillus
cutlery co
camillus n.y.
u.s.a.

Trav

[cato]

ty . nice one there trav

[Miller Bro's]

A 4-line pruner with a full blade and the sword brand etch still on it.

[orvet]

That is a beauty Dimitri!
You rarely see a hawk bill that old with such a full blade!


I got a WWII era Camillus yesterday on ebay.
I have been looking for one that didn't cost an arm & leg plus a pint of blood.
It appears to be in reasonable good condition considering what a good price I got it for.
I am really excited about getting it and can't wait until it gets here.
To me this is something a bit special and out of the ordinary.

I will post pics when I get it, but until then you will have wait (like I am).

[Miller Bro's]

Thanks Dale

The snap is like a bear trap on that knife and if your fingers are in the way it just might take them completely off!

Ok, give us a hint of what pattern you bought

[orvet]

It is big.........

[Old Hunter]

This Camillus 13 (my ID, not marked with a pattern number) has the same jigged bone pattern on each scale, but I am unsure as to why the front side is so much darker than the back side. OH

[orvet]

Nice one OH!
Often times during WWII and even before the handles were not always matched.
It took time to search through a batch of handles to find similar colors.
These knives were made as tools, not as collector pieces. Collecting knives is a phenomena new in the last 50 years or less.




OK here is my new BIG Camillus folder!

Here are some factory drawings Tom Williams sent me.

These are other companies that made the same machete during WWII-

I thought it was pretty cool.
A big thanks to Tom Williams for the drawings.

Tom is sending me some other drawings of Camillus knives.
I need to do some writing to explain them as the factory numbers (called model numbers in the factory) are different than the sales number, which is the number stamped on the blade; which we usually refer to as the model number.

As soon as I get all the drawings and compile a list of model numbers and corresponding sales numbers I will see if Bryan doesn't want to start a Camillus Research Section.
These will be from about the end of WWII through about 1959, if I am recalling what Tom said about the drawings. I am excited to see them!

[CAMCO]

Old Hunter,
Camillus had a "Matching Room" where employees would select bone covers that were similar to make a pair of handles for a knife. When you use a material, like bone, there is a considerable amount of variation in the color.

Tom Williams

[orvet]

Tom,
Did they have the Matching Room during the war, or was that something that came about post war?

It was my understanding that matching handle halves wasn't a big consideration, especially during the war.
Not sure where I got that...........


Also if a knife is left on the dashboard of a vehicle the sun can fade the bone.
I know we had trouble with some products changing color from florescent lights in the stores.
I have one Old Timer, a 12OT I believe, that was in a cutlery store display.
I bought it off a display board that it had been glued to.
The back handle is the proper color, but the front side that faced the light is several shades lighter.

[Old Hunter]

Dale and Tom - thanks so much for the info! Bruce

Dale, nice WW-II "knife" - I have seen one of those in the past at a Military Arms gunshow in Raleigh - it has been so long I don't remember the price, but even though I wanted it I didn't buy it! OH

[tjmurphy]

Very nice knife OH, I like it. According to Goins, since it has both blades marked, it would be c. 1919-1941. Great find

[tjmurphy]

Dale, that is a k-nice machete. Wish I could find one like that that was affordable. I'll be patient and maybe.............who knows Should there be a sheath or a pouch that that thing rides in?

[jerryd6818]

The local knife store (Tom's Cutlery) has/had a Puma Big Five Stockman in one of his display cases that had been laying under the fluorescent lights so long that the mark side handle was significantly faded.

[orvet]

The local knife store (Tom's Cutlery) has/had a Puma Big Five Stockman in one of his display cases that had been laying under the fluorescent lights so long that the mark side handle was significantly faded.

Fluorescent lights are bad about fading things and causing oxidation.
We finally had to put filters (just a clear plastic tube) over the tubes to filter out certain frequencies of light that was doing he most damage. It helped a lot but didn't eliminate the problem.

I suspect fluorescent lights will really cause damage to celluloid.
That would be a good experiment.

[coffeecup]

I suspect fluorescent lights will really cause damage to celluloid.
That would be a good experiment.

If you do decide to experiment with it, you might look at some alternate sources for the test pieces. The better ping-pong balls are still made of celluloid, as are some guitar picks.

The Library of Congress or the Film Foundation may have some previous research the effects of fluorescent light on celluloid film degradation. The only problem I can see trying to apply this research is that the cell used for knife handles came from a variety of manufacturers. The products of some manufacturers (in particular a source in New Jersey, if I remember right) were known to break down relatively quickly, while the products of other manufacturers seem much more stable. In general, some of the Italian and French makers seem to have made some of the better products and raw stock.

Switching hats here, back when I did antique restoration, I occasionally had to repair or replace parts or inlays made of cell. When I could, I'd try to use a more-stable plastic of the period (Bakelite, for example). When I couldn't, I'd try to match the original color of the inlay or part (usually by sectioning an existing inlay or part). Then I had to simulate the effects of time and exposure so the colors would match. Part of this process involved fluorescent lamps, both regular and black light. Color changes might take as little as a few hours or as much as a week. If I forgot a piece for too long or it got too warm (or both), the stuff would sometimes begin breaking down.

Jim

[orvet]

Good info Jim, Thanks.

You make a good point about the different sources for the celluloid.
A through scientific study would be very time consuming and probably costly as well.
I am not sure I have the energy for that now.

[coffeecup]

I agree. It would probably make for fascinating reading, but I don't want to be the one writing it!

Jim

[orvet]

Speaking of celluloid..................well we were last March when the last posts were made to this topic!

I saw this little Camillus pen knife on ebay and bought it just for the unique color of celluloid on the handles.
The tang stamp is one I am not sure of the dating yet.
The master blade has the Sword Brand crossed swords on the mark side and 2513 on the pile side.
The pen blade is stamped:
CAMILLUS
CUT. CO.
N.Y. U.S.A.

The blades are down some and the pen blade is lazy closing, but the handles are beautiful, IMO.
When I saw the auction I thought it was butter and molasses celluloid, but the colors seem richer than standard Camillus B&M celluloid. The darker stripes are more of a maroon than the brown I would expect and the maroon colored stripes are semitransparent.

Does anyone have another one this color?
I am interested in your feedback!

[carrmillus]

.........dale, I've got 2 with celluloid handles, how is the best way to store them????.....right now, I've got them in a cigar box away from all my other knives.............

[orvet]

I lay them on a shelf in the open so the air can circulate around them and not concentrate the gas around the knife.

When the gas gets on the celluloid around it, in the same handle or another knife, it can start a chain reaction. I know a fellow here in Salem who had several Winchesters & Remington's and other knives in a leather roll. One on the knives started to off gas and it caused 4 or 5 others to off gas as well. Some of the knives didn't off gas, though they were all effected to one degree or another. By his estimate the roll of knives had been worth $4500. After the damage of the off gassing he estimated the value of the knives in the roll at about $2000. Quite a hit for most of us!