Camillus Military Knives

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Fri May 04, 2007 1:30 pm

This Kingston has the stamp on the bail, and brass liners. No other markings are visible. I wonder if all Kingstons are marked this way?

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Fri May 04, 2007 3:14 pm

Hi Scout,

This is a Camillus, the US stamp and whole front of the knife look just like yours.

A buddy of mine gave me this some time back never paid much attention to it. Thanks for making me take a closer look.

Hey Charlie is that a thumbstud I see on the Kingston?

seeya..................

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Fri May 04, 2007 4:53 pm

Yes, Gmusic, just like scout's above, a thumbstud on the screwdriver/caplifter!! Did you get a free knife from me at Oregon?? If not I owe ya one!!

gmusic · Post by **gmusic** » Fri May 04, 2007 5:44 pm

I did, thank you Charlie.

That darn Eric snatched the Camillus right in front of me at the show, ten seconds to late I was.

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Fri May 04, 2007 11:43 pm

gmusic wrote:I did, thank you Charlie.

That darn Eric snatched the Camillus right in front of me at the show, ten seconds to late I was.

Wow, you guys were late! Charlie gave me one of his Schatt & Morgan Harness Jacks.

Doh! The Harness Jack was the one I bought.

Dale

upnorth · Post by **upnorth** » Sat May 05, 2007 1:34 am

Pretty good deal though!!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:17 am

It was an EXCELLENT deal Charlie!

Thanks again,
Dale

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:34 pm

Phil,
That USMC Raider Stiletto is an original WWII model. The Camillus Historical Society did not have any Camillus knives in their artifact collection. I chose to donate a Stiletto because it is Camillus' most famous knife.
upnorth,
The Stevenson knives are marked on the bail, but Phil's knife did not have the bail. As far as I know the Kingston models were not marked.
I have some photos of the all metal camp/utility knives (prototypes) made by Camillus in 1945. I will send them to Phil to post here on AAPK.

A hint to all MIL-K knife collectors,
The all metal camp/utility knives are famous for breaking springs. I suggest that you do not display these knives with the blades partially open. Show the knives with the blades closed or fully open.

Tom Williams

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:44 pm

The stud on the screwdriver/caplifter was intended to help dismantle fire- arms. Camillus installed the stud on the model #S1760 knives until 1973. The government changed the specs on this knife and the stud was no longer needed.
I met Dennis Ellingsen in 1987 when he came to Camillus to learn why the stud was installed on the #S1760 knives. We looked through the Camillus and GSA records to find the purpose of the stud. After several hours of searching my mother found a government document that stated that the stud could be used to dismantle small firearms. Dennis later wrote an informative article for KNIFE WORLD.

Tom Williams

El Lobo · Post by **El Lobo** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Good stuff, as always, Tom.

Thanks for posting.

Bill

jonet143 · Post by **jonet143** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:26 pm

great info tom. and i thought it was to aid opening.

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:05 pm

Hi;
For what it's worth, the following is not about camillus entirely.
According to Dennis Ellingsen, The U.S.MARINE CORPS MILK knife was marked KINGSTON on the clevis. You can find in MILITARY KNIVES A REFERENCE BOOK FROM THE PAGES OF KNIFE WORLD a pretty good dissertation on the military MIL-K knife starting on page 237 by Mr. Ellingsen.
wb

Gr8Scout · Post by **Gr8Scout** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:06 pm

Thanks everyone for your contributions. You know, I got that pile of knives I show above for an excellent price; $100 for the lot. I figured to sell them all. But you guys know how this stuff goes.. why break up one hell of a start to a new collecting niche?

I don't know what firearm the stud on the one blade was for dismantling; but many guns have pins that need to get pushed out to disassemble them. Interesting little factoid there.

Again, Tom that was one great knife to give to your historical organization. And I see that it is true about the two barrells of those knives found in the factory. I had thought that was more knife legend.

Did Phil Gibbs have anything to do with any of the Military knives Camillus produced.

Thanks again all.

Phil

PS... next up from me will be a Camillus bayonet I mounted on a shotgun. Stay tuned!

orvet · Post by **orvet** » Sun May 06, 2007 12:05 am

I have an Ulster version that is marked ULSTER-48 on the bail and brass liners. It too has the stud on the cap lifter. I assume the 48 means 1948.

I was issued both the M-14 & M-16 rifles while in the Marine Corps, but don't recall ever needing a stud like that to dissemble either rifle. Maybe it was for the M-1 Garand or some of the crew served machine guns.

Thanks for the great info Tom.

Now I have to keep looking for these, at least until I find one from each maker.
Does anyone know how many companies made these knives?

Dale

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:03 am

Hi Dale;
If you do not have it yet this book is a good item to have when it comes to military knives. Many different types are spoken of. The thumb stud is discussed at great length on the MIL-K , it also discusses several of the manf. firms.
As a side note Mr. Ellingsen speaks very highly of Tom Williams and all the other folks at, as he teaches the unknowing to say Ka Mil us not the
pronunciation in Camelot as for years I also said. Here is a picture of the cover it is very reasonably priced in Knife World. Under twenty bucks.
wb

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:47 pm

I believe the stud may have been used on the M1 rifle. The stud was dropped because the M16 did not require the stud for disassembly.

I have a limited knowledge of fire arms and I have only owned one-a black powder rifle. Those more versed on this subject will have the answer.

Tom Williams

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Wed May 09, 2007 7:07 pm

Hi:
The stud was generally used for anything on any firearm that needed pushing pulling or otherwise prodding with more pressure than the hand could offer. One of the Garand uses was helping remove the band around the piece that held the bayonet. I think it was called a band around barrel and fore stock.
Should anyone be interested, there is a dandy looking Mark 2 Camillus
marked on tang. camillus one side mark2 the other, currently on E-Bay. It comes with the fiber sheath.
http://cgi.ebay.com/U-S-N-MARK-2-NORD-4 ... dZViewItem
wb

Gr8Scout · Post by **Gr8Scout** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:49 am

Well, I sure am glad I bought those stainless military folders. A much more fascinating knife than I ever thought. Oh, here is a cool thing, one of them is a Queen and I found another, once I cleaned it up, with brass liners. Lots of dates, many older ones. Thanks for all the posts concerning these.

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Wed May 16, 2007 3:06 pm

An Identity crisis;
Did Camillus use individual tang stamps. Here is a pic of the questionable U.S. stamp. You can see how the U is obviously off line. This knife reads early to middle 40's and looks good except for this. Your opinions would really be appreciated. Is this an acceptable two line Camillus stamp?
wb

Phil Gibbs · Post by **Phil Gibbs** » Wed May 16, 2007 9:45 pm

Very unlikely!!

Every stamp I ever saw was a one piece

Can you post a pic of the whole blade?

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Thu May 17, 2007 2:21 pm

Thank you Phil;
Here are a couple of pics. Hope they help. Your insight helps more than you can imagine.
wb

Phil Gibbs · Post by **Phil Gibbs** » Thu May 17, 2007 6:52 pm

wb,

It's hard to give a diffinitive answer without handling the knife, but I believe it has been altered

I would yield to Tom Williams (Camco) opinion, but otherwise it smells mighty fishy to me!

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Thu May 17, 2007 7:11 pm

Phil;
I don't disagree. Thanks. Probably someone took a perfectly good knife and tried to enhance it to make it higher dollar. In this instance they scrubbed off any original worth it had to any collector.
wb

CAMCO · Post by **CAMCO** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:55 pm

WWII era Mark 2's are stamped on the blade with either U.S.N. or U.S.M.C. and CAMILLUS,N.Y.
In late 1943 the stampings were moved to the guard. Mark 2's made during WWII have the ends of the guard angled toward the handle.

Mark 2's made during the Viet Nam War were stamped "U.S." over "CAMILLUS,N.Y." and had straight guards. In late 1974 "N.Y." was dropped from the stamping.

Tom Williams

Mossdancer · Post by **Mossdancer** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:35 pm

Hi Tom:
I really appreciate the definitive info. Would the bend of the tang and the placement of marks be the same on any contract knives Cam. may have done for other companies. It does seem to follow for KA-BAR from what I can tell.
Realizing you have many requests lain upon you. As time permits could you possibly give similar information for the Mark 1 and the Jet Pilots Knife.
Was as far as you know an actual difference between the JPK and what in 1960-1964 was commonly referred to as a Survival Knife.
Is or was there any documents that Camillus had that showed the correct sheaths for the various 5" 6" and 7" bladed mil. Issue knives.
Lots of stuff, I am in no hurry. Thank You.
W.B.

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